Buffs92 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 Weren't there a bunch of 501st on set for this? Has anyone tried reaching out to them for some thoughts on what they may have seen regarding costuming decisions?
BikerScout007 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Buffs92 said: Weren't there a bunch of 501st on set for this? Has anyone tried reaching out to them for some thoughts on what they may have seen regarding costuming decisions? They weren't in the same scenes together so for all we know their scenes were shot days apart 1
The-Strike Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 So this is my first post, given I'm only beginning my journey into creating a scout uniform, but I love the discussion on this topic and wanted to chime in from an outsider's perspective: As a former US Army Infantryman stationed in DC as part of The Old Guard (the ceremonial face of the US Army) I can totally sympathize with the lack of consistency in uniform standards, and I cringe in almost every single movie I see in regards to how awfully the uniforms are done, even when done technically correct (i.e. ill fitting, crooked medals, misaligned belt buckles, etc.). However, there were times, even in my own unit, where placement of badges, ribbons, and medals was measure with a micrometer (no joke), that I saw other soldiers who were sloppy enough to notice. Now, no civilian without that kind of training would ever notice. In fact, they would still think it looked on point and amazingly sharp. Fast forward to me (a huge Star Wars fan since birth in '83, and a massive fan of the Scout troopers) watching the Mandalorian. Even with all the Star Wars media I had consumed, I didn't have the attention to the level of detail that you all have for that specific uniform. In other words, I didn't notice these flaws as a viewer with above average interest and knowledge. I don't think the public would notice, even with an ROTJ trooper next to a Mando Trooper. I worked at the Pentagon, and many civilians couldn't tell the difference between Coast Guard and Air Force dress uniforms. As far as the the lore: I honestly chalked up any of the troopers' unprofessional behavior and lack of military bearing to the Empire being in shambles, and the leadership relaxing enforcement of standards, as happens anytime there is change of command, or senior leadership who chose not to focus on discipline. That all said, I appreciate the discussion, and you are such an inspiration. Keep it all up. I love the amount of work you put into this. 7
BikerScout007 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, The-Strike said: As far as the the lore: I honestly chalked up any of the troopers' unprofessional behavior and lack of military bearing to the Empire being in shambles, and the leadership relaxing enforcement of standards, as happens anytime there is change of command, or senior leadership who chose not to focus on discipline. Appreciate your input on this. But again, every time this argument comes up I have the same response: they were all dressed UNIFORMLY wrong in the same way. It's not like one Scout was doing one thing and one was doing another. I guess my question is, why is everyone rushing to defend the production? Every one makes mistakes. My goodness have y'all seen the sequel trilogy? 3
The-Strike Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, BikerScout007 said: Appreciate your input on this. But again, every time this argument comes up I have the same response: they were all dressed UNIFORMLY wrong in the same way. It's not like one Scout was doing one thing and one was doing another. I guess my question is, why is everyone rushing to defend the production? Every one makes mistakes. My goodness have y'all seen the sequel trilogy? Right, and I totally get that. Without getting too much into the nitty gritty, my internal rationale went back to my own time in the service where we'd always be perfect according regulations when we were on post, around leadership, or in a ceremony. When we were out in the field, our uniforms were routinely out of regulations for a multitude of reasons. Some were lazy, some had lost the proper gear, and some just wanted to be comfortable. A quick, and somewhat relevant example, would be the use of knee pads, or simply, a knee pad. Most guys found that they would never kneel on their left knee, and therefore we'd simply not wear it. It may not be "technically" allowed, but in the field that didn't really matter. And on the one knee pad you did wear; when you weren't wearing it, you let it fall to your ankle. It was a pain to keep on, so instead of fighting it while marching, you simply let it fall. Also, we had a lot of leeway on how we all set up our harnesses (though some units had strict SOP on the setup), so our unit had a ton of variation in how soldiers looked. Again, this is just an outsider's $0.02. I defer to you guys for a more informed opinion! I get that the production team probably weren't thinking it through that much (maybe the were, IDK), but the result is somewhat comparable to real world military discipline.
BikerScout007 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 I guess that may explain the knees, but not the cummerbund. Why would anyone wear their pouches UNDER their belt so they can't access them? But it is what it is, and this is why we are splitting this character out from the ROTJ Scout into its own CRL.
The-Strike Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, BikerScout007 said: I guess that may explain the knees, but not the cummerbund. Why would anyone wear their pouches UNDER their belt so they can't access them? But it is what it is, and this is why we are splitting this character out from the ROTJ Scout into its own CRL. LOL, I can't answer that! Bad research! 1
BikerScout007 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, The-Strike said: LOL, I can't answer that! Bad research! It's all good, buddy, I appreciate your input.
Soundwave Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 On 12/28/2019 at 8:07 AM, BikerScout007 said: The midline in a screen used Scout chest is about 6 inches. The WTF measures 8. So a bit too tall. The film "chest" pieces really just covered the pectorals. For comparison. The grey bar on the chest both appear to be on the right of the suit. The Holsters appear to be on different boots. and the opposite boot appears to go to the knee. ... Just making discussion for the CRL. Sorry. 1
Soundwave Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 8:03 PM, BikerScout007 said: Hey Aaron, Glad you brought this up because it gives me a chance to address this issue. Like you, I am really unhappy with the appearance of the Scouts in "The Mandalorian." Though I've heard over and over that the reason is "it's 5 years after the Empire! Standards have fallen!", that does not adequately explain the poor job of dressing these characters in the episodes. They are all dressed incorrectly in the same way, which means there is some uniformity to what they are doing -- it's just wrong. I think people need to keep in mind that although this is official LFL product, the costume department of this (relatively) small budget show is nowhere near the level of the costume department of the films. So to treat the films and this show as equals is a bit of a shaky argument in my eyes. However, the show IS canon and we have to deal with what we are given. I've decided to go forward with a separate CRL for "The Mandalorian" Scout, because if the Detachment doesn't do this, Scouts on their own will start dressing like this and if we complain to local GMLs we'll just get pushback like "well on the show there's a gap between the bund and the chest armor, so it's canon." The only way to protect the high standards of the ROTJ Scout is to separate "The Mandalorian" Scout from it. Honestly, I was hoping it would just go away and we could forget about it, but there's too much interest in it. There are plenty of screenshots and it's a canon source. So even though myself, you and many others are very unhappy with how this costume was portrayed on the show, I have to recognize that portions of our membership do have interest in it for whatever reason. Now for folks wanting to do "The Mandalorian" Scout, please understand that this is not going to be something that's just as easy as turning you knees over and pulling your bund down and then BOOM -- new costume. There are some fairly significant differences in both the armor and soft goods. The heavy sandtrooper-type weathering of the Mandalorian Scout is not something that would be admissible for an ROTJ Scout. And the undersuit of the Mandalorian Scout differs from the ROTJ Scout, so again -- not just as simple as repurposing the suit you already have. The way I see it, there is a different TK for each film it appears in, all with their own requirements. Same with Vader. This will be no different. This is a different costume with different requirements that will need to be carefully adhered to as any other 501st costume would be. So anyone wanting to do this will need to take it as seriously as any other CRL. It's not just turning your knees over. But rest assured, the standards of the ROTJ Scout are not being lowered at all. We've come way too far in these last 5 years to let some poor costuming choices affect our Detachment's most popular costume. And.... THIS is why I respect the bad word out of you, 007. YOU ARE THE MAN. And I appreciate you. 1 1
rottie Posted January 26, 2020 Posted January 26, 2020 Hey! But the scout has become one of the most popular characters and most recognizable i would think you all would be happy about that 1
BikerScout007 Posted January 26, 2020 Posted January 26, 2020 The Scout already was one of the most recognizable. 4
Harbinger Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 2:35 PM, Soundwave said: The grey bar on the chest both appear to be on the right of the suit. The Holsters appear to be on different boots. and the opposite boot appears to go to the knee. ... Just making discussion for the CRL. Sorry. Holster is on the wrong boot on the RoTJ tour suit, FWIW.
Buffs92 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 On 12/29/2019 at 12:13 AM, Dragon_a said: While I'm posting differences between Mando Scouts and ROTJ version here's a shamelessly stolen pic from a fellow trooper on Facebook. Looks like there are no thigh riding patches while there are pockets on the thighs and (possibly) biceps. I'm wondering if this is a standard Tie Pilot / crew style Imperial flight suit? This picture speaks volumes about the pouches. Take a chest piece that is too long. Now slouch on top of a speeder bike, and all of a sudden the pouches are all in the way and bunched up. So, what does the actor do? Jam em down and out of the way, resulting in what you see in the other pics when he's standing. As I've just begun to venture into starting a TD, the length of the various chest pieces available has stood out the most to me. I really want to focus on the nice, short, tight look of the screen version. It seems to me that it affects the rest of the look down through the cummerbund to the belt. 1
Soundwave Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Don't get me wrong. I appreciate that The Biker Scouts are getting more exposure. I think it's great. And I'm hoping that it brings more traffic here. I'm hoping that it has a POSITIVE impact on our community and section of the legion. But I'm also kinda hoping that most people that see it will be driven here in appeal to the Biker Scout costume and want to do it to the standards of ROTJ. I feel that it is a much more professional appearance of the costume. I feel that it is the more popular and socially acceptable methods of wearing it. I'm hyped that we're featured in the show... But the character that we all flocked here to be were the first versions. And I wish it could be kept that way. I'm a fan of the show. And my frustrations are mostly based on how sloppy the costuming department was in application of the archives of what they had to review before sending it out into the world. We all deserve to be seen better and to be seen as what we are. Not what they make us. I can't speak on the appearance and accuracy of any of the other OTC characters and if their costumes were accurate and correct. I can only speak on the Biker Scouts. And I just wish that it appeared that they cared more about our community and the standards we have met to be accurate, ourselves. 2
BikerScout007 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Harbinger said: Holster is on the wrong boot on the RoTJ tour suit, FWIW. No idea why they dressed the mannequin like that for the Costumes book. The right boot appears to have holes in it where a holster used to be but for some reason this one is left handed. Which I would love! Hardest thing about being a Scout for me is pretending to be right handed! 2
Soundwave Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Looking at that latest photo... It's just... dumbfounding how they paid so much attention to the bund and stitching and the gloves. They KNEW certain aspects of the costume. But just... seemed to ignore the part about the pouches, Vest/bund and knees. And now I'm noticing that the knees don't even have double straps. (one up top, one lower) Either way, if production can call on the 501st for TK's... They should've called any of us for this crap. (No disrespect intended for anyone building one. It's just not for me. ) 3
stormtrooperguy Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Has anyone sorted out which boots they used as the base? I'm guessing it's not the ROTJ accurate sole...
BikerScout007 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, stormtrooperguy said: Has anyone sorted out which boots they used as the base? I'm guessing it's not the ROTJ accurate sole... No they aren't Sierras. These were fan-made boots. I'll try to find out the exact brand. @StephTrooper did the soft goods. 1
stormtrooperguy Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, BikerScout007 said: No they aren't Sierras. These were fan-made boots. I'll try to find out the exact brand. @StephTrooper did the soft goods. Well then I guess I'm already on the right track for getting my soft goods :) 2
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