EFX to make a Biker Scout helmet from the original molds

[Guest Gosdent]

 

 

The less expensive ones are typically the clean versions. The sad thing is that they charge more for what I consider a terrible "weathered" paintjob.

We could each do a better job weathering a clean lid for a C-Note less and have a better looking helmet.

 

My 2 cents...

 

\m/

 

BTW - I just let go of all my fan made Scout lids because my goal was to have all the fan mades.

LoneWolf stopped producing his so that busted the idea and now I am focusing on Licensed only.

 

Yeah I saw, wow dude! I guess those MLC's got you the cash you'll need for the eFX when that one comes around.

 

And I agree, I'd get the clean version, and then if I don't want to keep it shiny new looking as a show piece, I may do my own weathering to it. I don't particularly care if it's clean or not; I just want that version because 1.) it's ALL fiberglass, and 2.) it's the less expensive version.

 

 

[gino]

Hey guys, I think this may be my first time posting over here so sorry I just now got around to it.

I see a lot of speculation floating around so hopefully I can give some info to help clear up some of the uncertainties.

 

If you guys have any questions concerning the efx scout lid, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

 

Still no definitive pricing or release dates yet, so just thought I'd get that out of the way first.

 

The biggest complaint I've heard from people about the lid is the weathering job.

I've handled all the helmets in the archives, as well as the one now owned by propstore (previously owned by Sansweet).

I can tell you that the weathering on all the originals still around have a LOT of variance to them.

Some had more intense weathering, some had less, but they were all done in the same manner.

When I weathered the prototype legend, I modeled it directly off the original we used from the archives.

If you don't prefer the styling of the weathering of the prototype, then that means you don't prefer the look of the original helmet we used, because the weathering was a very close match.

 

If you closely examine the weathering on the original helmets, they appear to be a bit on the random sloppy side. But that's how they were done for the film.

On film they look great, but sitting on a shelf, in my opinion the weathering just sort of becomes more 'noticeable'.

But rather than perform an idealized weathering job, we chose to match the weathering as it was done for the originals.

And since we had fantastic in-hand reference of an original helmet, that was the one I used to match the weathering to.

Hopefully at some point we'll be able to post pics of that particular original so you can see the weathering and how it compares to the prototype.

 

At this point in time as far as I know, we haven't decided what will distinguish the limited from the legend.

I don't think we will be using a mixture of ABS and fiberglass, only fiberglass as far as I know.

ABS is just out of the question for mass production.

Having a factory try to replicate the difficult process of joining, filling, sanding/blending the halves together would be VERY time consuming with inconsistent results which translates into costing a lot more to produce, not to mention significantly more vulnerable to damage. It would be a quality control nightmare.

For one example, collectors would be wanting replacements at the first sign of a paint crack (which could easily be caused with just a bit of flexing the helmet) where all the halves are joined. All it takes is once slight squeeze or spreading open when trying to get your big melon head in it and boom, paint crack.

Most of the originals show paint cracking in the seams and if we made them in the exact same manner we'd have the same high risk.

It's fine for a film prop where it won't show up on screen, but not okay for a high priced collectible. As a prop collectible company, you have to take those kinds of things into consideration.

And it's a different world when managing the production of a 1000 pieces vs making a few out of your garage.

 

And yes, in case there was any uncertainty, all the original scout helmets are painted white and not bare ABS.

 

For the efx prototypes, we used the original production molds for everything except for the faceplate, chin cup, and eye lens.

For those pieces, we took molds from the interior of a screen-used helmet.

All these molds were vac-formed and assembled into a 1st gen helmet of the production molds, and then molded from the outside to produce fiberglass pieces.

 

Hope that helps.

Like I said if you guys have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

 

 

 

.

[Chef]

Can I ask what lay-up technique and materials you are using for your lids? Resins, mat types and thickness (number of layers), etc.

 

Will the main lid be constructed as a one piece, or multiples joined post lay-up?

[Guest Gosdent]

There he is! Thanks for chiming in Gino!

[Grendel_Blitz]

Finally!!! A true update. We all appreciate it Gino and thanks for all the detailed info. I will be anxiously awaiting for the presale day.

 

\m/

[Griffin-X]

Hey guys, I think this may be my first time posting over here so sorry I just now got around to it.

I see a lot of speculation floating around so hopefully I can give some info to help clear up some of the uncertainties.

 

If you guys have any questions concerning the efx scout lid, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

 

Still no definitive pricing or release dates yet, so just thought I'd get that out of the way first.

 

The biggest complaint I've heard from people about the lid is the weathering job.

I've handled all the helmets in the archives, as well as the one now owned by propstore (previously owned by Sansweet).

I can tell you that the weathering on all the originals still around have a LOT of variance to them.

Some had more intense weathering, some had less, but they were all done in the same manner.

When I weathered the prototype legend, I modeled it directly off the original we used from the archives.

If you don't prefer the styling of the weathering of the prototype, then that means you don't prefer the look of the original helmet we used, because the weathering was a very close match.

 

If you closely examine the weathering on the original helmets, they appear to be a bit on the random sloppy side. But that's how they were done for the film.

On film they look great, but sitting on a shelf, in my opinion the weathering just sort of becomes more 'noticeable'.

But rather than perform an idealized weathering job, we chose to match the weathering as it was done for the originals.

And since we had fantastic in-hand reference of an original helmet, that was the one I used to match the weathering to.

Hopefully at some point we'll be able to post pics of that particular original so you can see the weathering and how it compares to the prototype.

 

At this point in time as far as I know, we haven't decided what will distinguish the limited from the legend.

I don't think we will be using a mixture of ABS and fiberglass, only fiberglass as far as I know.

ABS is just out of the question for mass production.

Having a factory try to replicate the difficult process of joining, filling, sanding/blending the halves together would be VERY time consuming with inconsistent results which translates into costing a lot more to produce, not to mention significantly more vulnerable to damage. It would be a quality control nightmare.

For one example, collectors would be wanting replacements at the first sign of a paint crack (which could easily be caused with just a bit of flexing the helmet) where all the halves are joined. All it takes is once slight squeeze or spreading open when trying to get your big melon head in it and boom, paint crack.

Most of the originals show paint cracking in the seams and if we made them in the exact same manner we'd have the same high risk.

It's fine for a film prop where it won't show up on screen, but not okay for a high priced collectible. As a prop collectible company, you have to take those kinds of things into consideration.

And it's a different world when managing the production of a 1000 pieces vs making a few out of your garage.

 

And yes, in case there was any uncertainty, all the original scout helmets are painted white and not bare ABS.

 

For the efx prototypes, we used the original production molds for everything except for the faceplate, chin cup, and eye lens.

For those pieces, we took molds from the interior of a screen-used helmet.

All these molds were vac-formed and assembled into a 1st gen helmet of the production molds, and then molded from the outside to produce fiberglass pieces.

 

Hope that helps.

Like I said if you guys have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

 

 

 

.

 

Welcome to the Bikerscout.net site! Thanks for the post and information Gino. We're very glad to have you here with us.

[gino]

Thanks guys!

And Trevor that pic of you wearing the helmet looks awesome.

 

 

Can I ask what lay-up technique and materials you are using for your lids? Resins, mat types and thickness (number of layers), etc.

 

Will the main lid be constructed as a one piece, or multiples joined post lay-up?

 

 

Well the factories in China have their own way of doing things. We just try to get them to match OUR way as close as we can.

Should be a straight up polyester resin with fiberglass mat. No specific thickness or number of layers, but the thickness of the fiberglass has to very closely match the uniformed thickness of a vac formed sheet in order for the parts to properly register with each other.

Sounds like no big deal but I promise it is very difficult to do with consistency.

 

As of right now, the plan is to make all the individual pieces in fiberglass (helmet, faceplate, visor, chin cup) then assemble them post lay up.

 

 

.

[Guest Gosdent]

Thanks guys!

And Trevor that pic of you wearing the helmet looks awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

Well the factories in China have their own way of doing things. We just try to get them to match OUR way as close as we can.

Should be a straight up polyester resin with fiberglass mat. No specific thickness or number of layers, but the thickness of the fiberglass has to very closely match the uniformed thickness of a vac formed sheet in order for the parts to properly register with each other.

Sounds like no big deal but I promise it is very difficult to do with consistency.

 

As of right now, the plan is to make all the individual pieces in fiberglass (helmet, faceplate, visor, chin cup) then assemble them post lay up.

 

 

.

 

Always interesting. And thanks for taking the pic! Haha

[Chef]

Sorry, wasn't being clear enough.

 

When I said the main bucket, I meant just the rear helmet part, not including the faceplate or visor.

 

Is this being constructed as a single part item, from a split mould or Silicone jacket mould, or is it being made in two halves (or more) that are then joined post lay-up. Are the moulds being bagged with resin transfer or is it simply going to be a wet on wet lay-up?

 

As for construction method, are they going down the Gel-Coat, tissue, CSM layers method or something else??

 

 

 

These things are incredibly important to know when it comes to GRP lay-up as differing methods create a number of differing issues as I am sure you are aware.

And the thickness is also incredibly important.

A 1.5-2.0mm Lay-up (assuming that is the thickness of the original ABS) isn't going to be all that strong or resilient to cracking.

 

 

And getting it right with consistency should be perfectly simple enough for a skilled laminator. That's what makes them a good laminator.

 

I've built enough racing car bodies to know that. And been around some serious talent in the laminating world (way beyond my meagre skill) to know that is reasonably easy to achieve.

 

 

I'm not trying to have a go.... But what I have to stress to people is GRP isn't about what is on the outside. It's about the construction method that makes the final product.

A single gel-coat followed by a hastily applied wet on wet single 300gsm matt can result in a perfect looking item on the outside. One that will be eggshell thin, full of air bubbles and prone to cracking at the merest hint of rough treatment.

 

Hence me wanting to know.

[gino]

Sorry, wasn't being clear enough.

 

When I said the main bucket, I meant just the rear helmet part, not including the faceplate or visor.

 

Is this being constructed as a single part item, from a split mould or Silicone jacket mould, or is it being made in two halves (or more) that are then joined post lay-up. Are the moulds being bagged with resin transfer or is it simply going to be a wet on wet lay-up?

 

As for construction method, are they going down the Gel-Coat, tissue, CSM layers method or something else??

 

 

 

These things are incredibly important to know when it comes to GRP lay-up as differing methods create a number of differing issues as I am sure you are aware.

And the thickness is also incredibly important.

A 1.5-2.0mm Lay-up (assuming that is the thickness of the original ABS) isn't going to be all that strong or resilient to cracking.

 

 

And getting it right with consistency should be perfectly simple enough for a skilled laminator. That's what makes them a good laminator.

 

I've built enough racing car bodies to know that. And been around some serious talent in the laminating world (way beyond my meagre skill) to know that is reasonably easy to achieve.

 

 

I'm not trying to have a go.... But what I have to stress to people is GRP isn't about what is on the outside. It's about the construction method that makes the final product.

A single gel-coat followed by a hastily applied wet on wet single 300gsm matt can result in a perfect looking item on the outside. One that will be eggshell thin, full of air bubbles and prone to cracking at the merest hint of rough treatment.

 

Hence me wanting to know.

 

 

Not sure I understand all your questions, but I'll try to answer.

 

Yes the rear main helmet will be laid up as one singular piece. Same as the visor.

Helmet would consist of 4 fiberglass pieces (rear helmet, face plate, visor, chin cup) that get assembled into a final helmet.

 

As far as I know, it's going to be a gel coat with CSM (chopped strand mat) fiberglass.

 

 

You have to remember that these are Chinese factory workers we're talking about here and it takes time to get things on track with them.

That being said, we don't approve the product until we get a sample that we feel meets the criteria we put forth.

 

Also you have to remember that these are collectibles that are meant to be displayed.

Just like any film prop not made of rubber, if you put them through rough treatment it is going to show.

No different than anything fan made as well whether it be ABS or fiberglass.

 

 

.

[Grendel_Blitz]

Well put everyone!!! Now let's get those babies produced so we can all enjoy them. ))

 

\m/

[jkno]

[Grendel_Blitz]

I cannot believe that it is FINALY happening. Two weeks to sell as many fluids as possible to scratch the cash!!! (wink wink nudge nudge). I will be ready for the pre-sale after waiting these many years. \m/

[Grendel_Blitz]

I am sure that you all are getting sick of my posts but here is another one...

 

I gotta say that comparing LW's Scout lid to the eFX cast from the original, that LW's is spot-on.

All the great advice from the board and LW's attention to detail made that possible.

Nice work LW - (although I was never able to get one )

 

\m/

 

[jkno]

Even if I get the eFX Scout lid, the LW will not leave my house, this fantastic helmet is made the same way original helmets were made, which is not the case with eFX version due to factory limitations. LW is among my favorite 10 items in my entire collection.

[Grendel_Blitz]

Jkno - super jealous!!! )

Happy for you that you were able to get one of "LW's" lids. Keep it always!

\m/

[gino]

How can we get this thread moved to the helmet section?

Lots of good info in this thread but it took me forever to find it.

[Evil-Inc]

Getting one!!!!!!!

[jkno]

How can we get this thread moved to the helmet section?

Lots of good info in this thread but it took me forever to find it.

 

There is this topic too: http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=12038&st=0

 

Maybe even better if two approximate similar topics in 2 different parts of the board, more promotion for eFX Scout helmets

[Grendel_Blitz]

Hey gang (spcifically "jino"). I received the eFX Scout pre-sale email today. I am really curious about the part that mentions the to-be-announced LEDGEND VERSION...

 

"This helmet has all of the pedigree of a Legend Edition, but we have something special planned for the Legend! But we can tell you that the Legend Edition helmet will not be available as a separate item. (hmmm, is that a little hint of what is coming to San Diego Comic Con next month!)"

 

I take it that this is a secret to be annouced and possibly displayed at Comic Con?

It would be nice to know what the differences are before purchasing the Limited including the price points.

I would plan to purchase one but would like to have the info to make the right choice.

Any Ledgend news would be nice to know before July 8.

 

\m/

 

BTW - What does this part mean? ...

"the Legend Edition helmet will not be available as a separate item"

[jkno]

Legend helmet will come with a fully working spederbike.

 

 

 

 

I have a hunch it wil lbe armor involved here

[Grendel_Blitz]

Done and DONE!!!! \m/

 

 

Now to wait until Sept/Oct..... waiting... waiting....

 

\m/

[Dart]

Done and DONE!!!! \m/

 

Same!

 

Looking forward to Sept/Oct! I'm very curious how it actually compares to whatever's out there. Sure, we have the photos, but to see a helmet derived from the original molds/existing helmets is very exciting!

[jkno]

'

 

[Chef]

I am the only one who finds this little detail join here a little disturbing??