Fragarock's Scout Build

[fragarock]

Hello,

 

My name is Frank and about a week ago I mentally committed to my next project which will be a Mando Scout. I've been in the 501st for about six years, although I feel like Covid wiped out a couple of those. My first project was a TK that I started back in 2016, took about 6-7 months to complete it but was really fun and I learned a lot of new skills. I'm hyper focused on detail from materials, assembly and weathering so I'm really looking forward to this version of the scout.....nice and dirty. 

I also have a MPSB grunt ST, built to exacting standards and finish. It is really heavy and difficult to wear so a scout will be a nice option to have.

Anyway, I've started some research looking on the forums and people's WIPs and gathered many reference photos from the show, trying to absorb it all into my brain. I'll ask a bunch of questions so hopefully you don't mind being pestered from time to time.

So far I have received my gloves from WampaWear, a satchel is on its way from Brodustrial Light and Magic. I have a blaster on order as well as boots coming from Crow Props. And I have an RS ROTJ helmet which I ordered long ago as a display piece, I'll be updating it to look like it's been through hell and back. 

Next thing to research is flight suits and pick a vendor.

 

Below is my ROTJ bucket. As you can see it was weathered to match one of the screen used buckets but is no longer suitable for this project. I'll have to do some experimenting to find the best way to remove the weathering without damaging the ABS....too much. The weathering needed looks to be a base light tan color with multiple layers of darker tans and brown and even gray here and there with just the right amount of scrapes and wear. A lot of what I see in the image below looks like dirt weathering spray, broken down through various distressing techniques. Most of the armor is covered with grime with the underlying white only visible in certain wear areas and scrapes/scratches.

 

 

I noticed the chest armor has black scratches, presumably from some kind of wear (real or not) from the arms. Lots of nice little details. Here you can see the heavy weathering on the shoulder and the black scrapes on the chest side.

 

Another thing I noticed is the elastic appears ribbed or textured. Has anyone sourced this specific material? I see it in a few of the WIPs but the CRL doesn't address it specifically.

 

That's it for tonight. Looking forward to this new project!

 

[Chopper]

Frank, the type of elastic you're looking for is this: https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-Pry-9507B-Non-Roll-Elastic-Black/dp/B004ALJMSQ?th=1

That's the 1" variety. Either 1" or 3/4" is acceptable according to the CRL.

[fragarock]

Frank, the type of elastic you're looking for is this: https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-Pry-9507B-Non-Roll-Elastic-Black/dp/B004ALJMSQ?th=1
That's the 1" variety. Either 1" or 3/4" is acceptable according to the CRL.

Thanks for the info on that elastic. Appreciate the help.

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[BikerScout007]

There were inconsistencies in the elastic from trooper to trooper so it was left open to the costumer.  

[RZill]

Frank!  You started yours after I did, yet you'll probably still finish before me... and it will look better!  Glad to see you on here, my friend! 

[fragarock]

Frank!  You started yours after I did, yet you'll probably still finish before me... and it will look better!  Glad to see you on here, my friend! 

Hey Ron,

I didn't know you were building one. Very cool and glad you're giving it a go. I haven't trooped in a long so hope this gets me re motivated.

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[fragarock]

Here are some photos of the bag which I received last week. Great quality replica and looks like it will hold up well over many years.

I wanted to change the color of this bag to be a little closer to how it is represented on screen. On screen is it has a darker brown tone and in some scenes almost reddish although I didn't want to take it that far. I tried dying it with some tea but couldn't get it quite right. So I used cloth dye, soaking it for a good hour which seemed like a long time but the color just didn't want to take right away.

 

After the dying, I used a mix of raw and burnt umber acrylics with a chip brush to add some weathering to the crevices, buckles and areas of the bag which would get particularly dirty. Then I hit it with dirt weathering spray all over to darken the color and add additional layers of grime. I used this spray and the acrylic weathering techniques on my Shore Trooper build years ago. Once these had dried I applied some fixative to keep the colors from rubbing off.

 

Just got my flight suit today so I'll need to start inspecting it and check the fit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fragarock]

Here's the Wampa Wear flight suit. Overall I really like it. It's well made and pretty comfortable but not sure how hot it will get. Guess it can't be any worse than my ST or TK. The sizing options are odd though. This is a medium and it fits me pretty well except for the sleeves and legs being long, the legs are really long. I'm short so it's not too bad, can just have the legs hemmed. 

I presume there's no requirement for the length as they are covered up by the boots. Wondering the same about the sleeves. I could shorten them but not sure there's much point doing that since they're going to be covered by the gloves.

Once I have the armor pieces and start fitting this together I'll review the overall look of the suit. I'm thinking I may need to have the pans and sleeve diameters reduced slightly so the suit doesn't look too puffy. We'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aradun]

Where you have your legs set in the third photo of you wearing the flight suit looks good. You should be fine hemming just the legs as you propose. Doing so will help reduce the pant legs from blousing out of your boots and creating a baggy look. Your sleeves look fine with the gloves. I wouldn’t do anything to them right now.

[fragarock]

Good Evening,

 

I got my blaster last week. It's a B grade model so it's a little rough but will do the trick. This is a cast rubber version so it will be durable for trooping, don't have to worry about dropping it and has a nice weight to it. Here is the paint job out of the box. Not bad but overdone for my tastes and doesn't match the screen used versions which were mostly shiny black with minimal distressin/scratches.

 

I primed the blaster then started painting it with Alklad gun metal through my airbrush which gives a nice dark grey metal color. Then I I gave it some darker areas again with the airbrush and a darker color. Last paint was a bit of gloss black to darken the whole thing, although not applied in an opaque manner, a light mist so the bottom tones were still visible. Next I used some powdered graphite to give some areas a bit of a metallic shine, mostly in areas where finish wear would occur. This all got a semi-gloss clearcoat to protect the finish.

Finally I did some scratches and metallic wear areas using Ak True Metal paints and a dry brush technique.

 

Here's the final, simplified paint job with a bit of weathering and wear. I will likely drill out the fake screws and replace them with the real deal, maybe this weekend. Pictures make it look darker than it actually is.

 

Here are reference photos of a screen used blaster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chopper]

Looks like you have an old Hyperfirm holdout blaster. You don't see those as often anymore. Nice work on the paint upgrade.

[fragarock]

28 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Looks like you have an old Hyperfirm holdout blaster. You don't see those as often anymore. Nice work on the paint upgrade.

Thanks. When I received it, it looked like a recast of the Hyperfirm but I don't want to say for sure, maybe just close modeling.

I miss Hyperfirm, have an E-11 which is incredible. Wish I would have got my hands on more before they went under. The casting was so good.

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[Aradun]

Excellent job on refinishing that hold out blaster! Sweet!

I agree with you on the Hyperfirm E11. I use one for my TK and other costumes even though I have a DoopyDos and a spot on 3D print from Bryon Roller over at FISD.

[fragarock]

Hi Troopers!

I've spent the past couple weeks working on my RS helmet repaint. I got this helmet last year and it was painted with a ROTJ paint scheme. Was never really happy with the paint job. I could tell they modeled it after a screen used paint job but it looked hokey. Maybe that's how the ROTJ bucket is supposed to look or maybe their paint job wasn't the best work, but I wasn't a fan. Doesn't matter any more because it's time to repaint!

First I stripped off the old paint. Experimented with a couple if products from mineral spirits, enamel thinner and careful acetone use. Found that Testors Universal Enamel Thinner worked great. Dulled the shiny ABS finish a bit but that didn't matter and if you wanted that restore the shiny it could be done by re-polishing the helmet or spraying on a glossy clearcoat.

For reference, here are shots of the original helmet and after I stripped it. Forgive the yellowish tone that from my basement photos.

 

 

Looking at the screen captures and general color tone of the weathering, it appears there's a bit of grayish undercoating on the armor in some places. So my initial plan was to replicate this coloring as a base coat. I did numerous tests of acrylic paints, oil paints and weathering spray to work out the best way to do this. Generally I found that the paint coats would have to go down first with the weathering spray applied last. If that order is reversed, the liquid in the paints would wash away the weathering spray effect. So after multiple tests I decided to use the oil base paints which I got from my local art store. I used white with a touch of black to make a custom gray color. Maybe it was the specific paint I used but I had a hard time getting it to apply in a reasonably thin layer to the helmet while then being able to wipe it off. Wasn't as forgiving as the acrylics I used on my Shoretrooper. I tried thinning it with all kinds of stuff but found Naptha worked best making a nice thin liquidy paint. However the Naptha also acted as a drying agent speeding up the process which ultimately caused it's another problem. If anyone has a better suggestion for applying oils I'd like to know how to do it. 

 

I'll show what I did with this gray layer. Ultimately it was not successful and I stripped most of it away but something in this process may be useful for others. I applied the paint with a chip brush and then dabbed at the surface to get rid of the brush strokes and build up a grimy layer.

 

 

The Naptha was really good at breaking down the paint so in areas I wanted to wipe it away, even it if had already dried, I dipped a paint brush in and basically erased the unwanted paint. Other nice thing about the Naptha is it didn't damage any of the decals on the helmet. 

I found wadding up a paper towel and getting that wet with Naptha worked well to remove some of the overall paint and start to create a weathered look of paint break down. Basically dab the damp paper towel on the surface until you get the look you want.

 

After coating the entire helmet this is what it looked like. I immediately knew the coverage was too thick but thought I'd try to distress it and see what happened.

 

To improve this condition, I hit it with steel wool to erode the finish and knock down the texture. The results weren't great and it took too long. So I decided to do a strategic wipe down with Naptha and a paper towel. This was the end product before I would apply the weathering spray. 

 

Next I applied the weathering spray. This is a product I used on my Shoretrooper and other props. Easy to apply and has a great effect if done correctly. Just takes a bit of practice. Here's the beginning of the application. You can spray it in multiple lighter coats or go heavy all at once. You'll get a different effect with each techniques. The idea here is to create a base coat of grime over the helmet which you can then distress and layer using multiple applications and weathering/distressing techniques. Areas that would naturally collect more dirt should be darker. You can see this in the screen used kit. Ear holes, recessed grooves, generally the sides of the helmet and front would be getting blasted with dirt while the back and top would have less exposure. In the image below you can see some whiter distress markings. This is done by applying a heavier spray to the helmet and immediately dabbing it with a paper towel, takes the color up in a nice fashion.

One thing I happened upon was wiping a thin layer of Naptha over the dirt spray created this realistic crackled weathered effect, instantly aging the area.

I continued this process all around the helmet and here's what it looked like.

 

Later that night I started distressing this with steel wool, wire brush, files, etc. In the following photos the color looks a lot darker than it actually was, weird lighting I guess.

While it looked okay. The color was really bothering me and I came to the conclusion is was the gray undertone. A bit too dark and to thick. So I went back to the Naptha and wiped away most of it. But I left some of the gray and initial dirt spray in place. Considered it an initial wear layer of grime to help build up the muck in certain areas. Here's after I removed most of the coating.

 

The next day I hit it again with the dirt spray, this time with much better results and better technique from what I learned the previous day. Where the previous attempt was heavier and had the gray layer, this one was more strategically applied and more in line with the screen captures.

 

I then reinstalled the lens using a hot glue gun which worked well.

 

The following photos are of the completed helmet. After the final dirt spray application I dry brushed some raw umber into the ear holes to darken them a bit and a few other recessed areas. To lighten up some areas which were too dark from the spray I gently rubbed steel wool over the area which scraped away the coating in a uniform way. Other areas were hit with the heavier steel wool to add scratches and I used an emery board for smaller detail scratches around the snout and visor brim and to create a thin white border around the eye lens perimeter which was a detail I noticed in the screen captures. 

The scouts in the season 1 episodes had varying degrees of weathering. I went with the heavier version seen on the trooper who had Grogu in his bag.

 

 

Here are some detail shots and a side by side of the screen capture helmet I referenced. May have to weather the snot a bit, too clean, maybe some darker oily kind of coloring.

 

Here are the weathering items I used. #3 steel wool and #0000 which is the finer texture. This and the Naptha can be found at your local hardware store. Do not use the Naptha inside and chemical resistant gloves are a good idea. The Movie Magic dirt spray can be ordered online from various vendors. If in the UK, it's equivalent is called Dirty Down. The dirt spray can be wiped off of plastic with a wet rag pretty easily but on the ABS it became relatively permanent quickly, perhaps because I had already made the surface rough from various paint coats and chemical stripping. On smooth ABS it will take a day or two to dry but could still be removed. A clearcoat is recommended. In my case I won't need it.

 

 

Good news is my RS kit has shipped! Not sure when it will arrive but likely in 7-10 days. Then I can get to work on the rest of this armor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aradun]

Really nice work and a very different approach to what’s been done before. It looks great.

[fragarock]

22 hours ago, Aradun said:

Really nice work and a very different approach to what’s been done before. It looks great.

Thanks. I'm pretty happy with it even though it took a while to get the process figured out. 

[fragarock]

Today I got my armor from RS Propmasters. For anyone else who has this armor, I'm curious if you had the same issues I'll describe below. First some pics of the pieces.

 

This ABS is off white in color just like my TK, typical for RS. But it's a bit more yellowey than the TK. Shouldn't matter since it's gonna get covered in muck.

Some of these pieces seem really big. I don't know the average size of a stunt guy in the show but I'll have to do some trimming to get the pieces proportionally sized to my frame. Here's the shoulder bell which looks good from the front but will likely need to be trimmed and possibly heat bent to better fit the arm as it looks really wide. It's overlaid atop my TK for comparison.

 

The TD chord piece is kinda weird. The RS piece appears to be some kind of sheet with grooves in it that is rolled around a tube, rather than a chord wrapped around a tube. Which is more screen accurate? The RS piece looks rough but I suppose much of it will be covered up anyways. It's completely rigid and I fear could break if dropped or bent in any way. Will that be a problem? I presume this piece should bend somewhat.

 

They drew in pencil trim lines on some of these pieces. Not sure how they came up with them but doesn't look accurate to me. Perhaps it's accurate for the ROTJ armor but not even close to what is seen in the screenshots I have. Other than eyeballing it and making it look proportional to my smaller frame size, are they any known or required dimensions for these pieces? 

 

Similar issues with the forearms. Curious if this is something to cut to fit my size or if it must be a specific dimension. Any specific rules for where the elastic strap slit gets cut into the pieces?

 

Also, the bicep and forearm appear to have a slight return edge which I'll have to replicate after trimming. Is this the case? Shoulder bells don't seem to have a return edge from what I see in the images.

 

Any advice or tips is appreciated. Trying to look ahead and get questions answered before I start cutting into these pieces. I'll likely start with the chest/back pieces to set the overall proportions for the armor kit. Based on what I see, I'll probably have to heat bend the chest a bit as it looks really wide and flat across the front. I'll know better once I can rough trim it and mock it up while I have my flight suit on.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chopper]

Hi Frank,

Many of the issues you're seeing between what was on screen in The Mandalorian vs the RS armor is because the RS armor is derived from the screen used ROTJ scout kit.

The armor used for The Mandalorian Scouts is the Walt's Trooper Factory (WTF) kit, which has a fair number of sculpt differences from the ROTJ screen used armor/RS armor. Everything you get in a RS kit is based around a ROTJ build, which is why the pencil trim markings don't match up with what you're seeing in the Mando screen shots. They're not going to match up perfectly because they're two totally different sets of armor.

Before going any further, know that the RS kit can absolutely be built into an approvable Mando Scout. See Christina's build here: http://forum.501stpathfinders.com/index.php?/topic/21567-scout-trooper-the-mandalorian-approved-christinas-build/

To your questions --

The RS det tubing is a foam cast of a wire wrapped tube, replicating what was used in ROTJ. The WTF kits use a piece of ribbed pool hose, which is also specified in the Mando Scout CRL: "Thermal detonator box with short corrugated hose attaches to the back of the belt".

Some of the issues you're dealing with for the forearm, bicep armor, and shoulder not fitting properly will likely be improved once you add elastic strapping. The elastic will curve the plastic somewhat to fit. As mentioned, you can also do some careful heat forming as needed too.

Any specific sizes will be stipulated in the CRL and there's no specific dimension for the scout forearm, it just needs to look appropriate for the scale of the armor and the wearer.

The red trim line on your forearm armor looks fine and the forearm armor does have a return edge, yes.

There is no return edges on the shoulder bells. Again, the RS shoulder armor will look significantly different from the WTF shoulder armor as used on screen, because they're differently designed kits.

Finally, and this is your call, but if you feel that you absolutely need screen accuracy in terms of shape, appearance, and design adherence to the Mando Scout, then you might want to consider not cutting up your RS kit -- sell it and buy a WTF kit. Again, I want to emphasize that you should absolutely be able to get approved in RS armor as a Mando scout without needing drastic mods to the overall look of the parts. Check out Christina's build. She did a great job.

Let us know if you have additional questions. Happy to help.

[fragarock]

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

Hi Frank,

Many of the issues you're seeing between what was on screen in The Mandalorian vs the RS armor is because the RS armor is derived from the screen used ROTJ scout kit.

The armor used for The Mandalorian Scouts is the Walt's Trooper Factory (WTF) kit, which has a fair number of sculpt differences from the ROTJ screen used armor/RS armor. Everything you get in a RS kit is based around a ROTJ build, which is why the pencil trim markings don't match up with what you're seeing in the Mando screen shots. They're not going to match up perfectly because they're two totally different sets of armor.

Before going any further, know that the RS kit can absolutely be built into an approvable Mando Scout. See Christina's build here: http://forum.501stpathfinders.com/index.php?/topic/21567-scout-trooper-the-mandalorian-approved-christinas-build/

To your questions --

The RS det tubing is a foam cast of a wire wrapped tube, replicating what was used in ROTJ. The WTF kits use a piece of ribbed pool hose, which is also specified in the Mando Scout CRL: "Thermal detonator box with short corrugated hose attaches to the back of the belt".

Some of the issues you're dealing with for the forearm, bicep armor, and shoulder not fitting properly will likely be improved once you add elastic strapping. The elastic will curve the plastic somewhat to fit. As mentioned, you can also do some careful heat forming as needed too.

Any specific sizes will be stipulated in the CRL and there's no specific dimension for the scout forearm, it just needs to look appropriate for the scale of the armor and the wearer.

The red trim line on your forearm armor looks fine and the forearm armor does have a return edge, yes.

There is no return edges on the shoulder bells. Again, the RS shoulder armor will look significantly different from the WTF shoulder armor as used on screen, because they're differently designed kits.

Finally, and this is your call, but if you feel that you absolutely need screen accuracy in terms of shape, appearance, and design adherence to the Mando Scout, then you might want to consider not cutting up your RS kit -- sell it and buy a WTF kit. Again, I want to emphasize that you should absolutely be able to get approved in RS armor as a Mando scout without needing drastic mods to the overall look of the parts. Check out Christina's build. She did a great job.

Let us know if you have additional questions. Happy to help.

Thanks for the input and the history lesson. I didn't realize a WTF kit was used in the series but that explains the differences. I have to admit that I'm kinda wingin' it with this build compared to my TK where I did a lot more upfront research. So the additional insight is appreciated. Having but a TK and ST I'm confident I can make this RS kit look that way it's supposed to, just need to start which is usually the biggest obstacle.

I'll continue to ask questions and again, appreciate the help.

[BikerScout007]

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA

Sorry I gotta step in here.

The RS Props is by far the most accurate set of Scout Armor out there.  It has screen lineage, as its measurements were derived from the original suits used in "Return of the Jedi".

I will just say that the WTF kits that were used on "The Mandalorian"......are the exact opposite of that.  They are so far off the mark that one cannot achieve Lancer status for the Return of the Jedi Biker Scout with a WTF kit.  I can't believe the production didn't go with RS, but it is what it is.

Given that the RS kits are top of the line and the WTF kit is cheaper, my advice is similar to Corey's -- sell your RS kit and buy a WTF kit.  You probably end up with some extra money in your pocket all said and done.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by BikerScout007

[fragarock]

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA
Sorry I gotta step in here.
The RS Props is by far the most accurate set of Scout Armor out there.  It has screen lineage, as its measurements were derived from the original suits used in "Return of the Jedi".
I will just say that the WTF kits that were used on "The Mandalorian"......are the exact opposite of that.  They are so far off the mark that one cannot achieve Lancer status for the Return of the Jedi Biker Scout with a WTF kit.  I can't believe the production didn't go with RS, but it is what it is.
Given that the RS kits are top of the line and the WTF kit is cheaper, my advice is similar to Corey's -- sell your RS kit and buy a WTF kit.  You probably end up with some extra money in your pocket all said and done.
 

I do appreciate the RS kit, super happy with my TK from long ago, held up and looks great. Quality cant be matched.

Out of curiosity I did check on a WTF kit cost. Surprisingly its almost the same price as the RS kit but thats because I already had an RS helmet which would add significantly to the total cost (double the cost). And the Pound to Dollar exchange rate is favorable. Also about 8 weeks out for delivery which is too far out for me. Good suggestion though from you guys.

I will likely make a new TD tube. The RS one makes me twitch just looking at it. We'll see once I get to that point. So far I'm just talking and haven't started any trimming.


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[BikerScout007]

That's with a helmet though.  They didn't use WTF helmets on the show because.... I guess there are some lines even the production wouldn't cross.  The RS helmet actually works for a Mando, because they used EFX helmets on the show -- which also have screen lineage.  

I think the RS TD is pretty brilliant actually.  A wired TD is heavy.   They wired one up, then molded it to make their fake wired TD, which is MUCH lighter.   

But here again, we have a difference -- the show did not use wired TDs.  They used ribbed hose.   Which you would get with a WTF kit.  

Make sure when you are building this Scout that you are just using the Mando CRL as a guide.  It's a different construction than the ROTJ so a lot of things aren't the same.

And any questions, just ask!

 

[fragarock]

Tonight I'll start trimming! Big step to really get into this project and I'm excited!

Here are a couple shots of the chest piece for reference. RS kit here.

 

 

I can eyeball this but before I start trimming away, it would be good to know if there are specific dimensions for any of the return edges. Not just on the chest but the back as well, I'll tackle that next. Looking at the ROTJ reference photos there is a return edge and there is one on the actual chest piece I have. Eyeballing it, it may be in the 6-8mm range.

The bottom part of the chest is a little harder to determine, not too many good shots of how that looked. It appears sizeable in the photos but my gut is telling me it needs a bit of trimming down, even if its just a 5mm.

What do you think?

 

 

 

[Chopper]

Frank,

Any specific required measurements will be mentioned in the CRL. For the most part that sort of specificity is only for strapping.

For the areas you're pointing to, such as return edges and the bottom of the chest plate, we don't have specific measurements -- just try to get it close to what you see in the CRL photos and, if you're continuing with an RS build, Christina's build thread, which I linked earlier.

 

[fragarock]

So, I have a question regarding the back tank. Looking at other builds it appears the tank is secured to the back with a strap extending out of the top and one out of the bottom of the tank, then around the back piece vertically. I'm not understanding exactly how this works or how the tank keeps from sliding around. Anyone have good photos showing how this was done?

Thanks for the help.