[woobiee] 1st and New build! (Lancer probably)

[woobiee]

Armour: RS
Helmet: RS (non red label)
Flight Suit: Heavily modified Imperial Boots
Flak Vest: Modified Imperial Boots
Cummerbund: Imperial Boots Made myself
Cod Piece: Imperial Boots Made myself
Pouches: Imperial Boots Made myself
Footwear: Imperial Boots
EC-17 Blaster:  By @Darth Voorhees
 

Greetings all,

I'm finally back in business! Today my armour finally came in. I think you folks call it BBB day...what does that mean anyway? My soft parts came in back in December of 2020 but the armour took weeks -- 25 weeks in fact! For people not aware, besides the COVID situation, the RS peeps had another huge hurdle in the name of a studio fire. They had to move out to a temporary facility, then promptly moved into their new permanent space. I'm grateful that the RS team got out of it safely and are prosperous once again!

I haven't fully examined and test fitted the armour kit yet but hopefully will do that later this week.

As with the soft parts, I am strategizing my plan of attack and think the flight suit would be a good starting point. Even though my flight suit from IB is a size S, it was still slightly too large for my body. I threw it in the wash to shrink it (and weather it a bit) with some success. The main issue with the flight suit is the crotch. For some reason it is ultra low, like near mid thigh currently.  I think I will pay a visit (of many) to my tailor this weekend.

Some photos

Bund and cod:

Gloves:

Boots:






I couldn't resist a photo of the helmet. Sorry that my t-shirt may be sacrilege to some of you SW folks -- I promise it was not intentional! haha

[Aradun]

Congrats on your BBB (Big Brown Box) day Andy! You’ll find that RS kit well worth the wait and 25 weeks with all they have been dealing with is still a pretty good turn around. By comparison, I ordered my kit right before the world shut down last year and had a 21 week wait.

Looks like you’re off to a great start and I’m looking forward to seeing your build progress.

Be sure to ask lots of questions. You’ll find your fellow Pathfinders eager to assist and the armorers here are among the best in the Legion. They really know the scout inside and out!

[Chopper]

Hey Andy, welcome. Based on your location it looks like you'll be in my garrison, with Old Line?

The sizing on the IB coveralls tend to run long, especially in the torso. I have two of their flight suits and I've had to take them both to the tailor for alterations to shorten the length a bit. It's not a hard job for a professional, but it's unfortunate that the IB sizing is a bit wonky like that.

As you work through your build, I recommend that you take a look at the following posts:

http://forum.501stpathfinders.com/index.php?/topic/17305-lancer-build-tutorial/

http://forum.501stpathfinders.com/index.php?/topic/18894-some-tips-for-keeping-your-scout-costume-together-while-trooping/

And if you're interested in Level 2, I suggest that you browse some of the more recent Lancer Applications:

http://forum.501stpathfinders.com/index.php?/forum/51-lancer-deployment-request/

Let us know if you have any questions about your build. Pete @Retrofire and I are here to help and are happy to answer any questions you might have about your build.

[woobiee]

Thanks for the advice!

Yes @Chopper I will be part of the Old Line Garrison and am very ecstatic that you are a part of that garrison as well!

Big Brown Box day. I get it now!  You know when the box came in yesterday, I was skeptical that it was the entire order. The box felt small enough that I thought it was just for the helmet and the helmet alone. To my surprise, they packed everything so efficiently within. Seem like they've done this before... hah

About the Lancer specs, I told the RS team the list of small changes that Lancer required and they said they would try to accommodate. I'll have time later this weekend to check, hoping they came through!

[Chopper]

Ok sure, just let us know about your kit and we can take a look. We've had quite a few successful RS Lancer Scouts, so I don't think you should have too many issues, if any, with the hard parts.

Oh, and in addition to the threads I posted, make sure you double check everything again the current CRL. There have been some minor changes over the years, which might not be accounted for in the build thread from 2017: https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TB_Scout_trooper

[woobiee]

Yesterday I took the flight suit to the tailors for some adjustments. The legs needed some suppressing, the crotch area was very low and needed to be brought up, and the butt flap needed to be narrowed+shorter. My tailor was super curious in this whole 501st thing and she was eager to start work -- I suppose it's not everyday you work on garments for the Imperial Army.

Today I spent some time going through the CRL (specifically the Lancer requirements) in detail and comparing it to my armor that recently arrived. Fortunately only a few straps here and and there and a few bits and bobs I'll have to change out to satisfy the Lancer level. It's looking like the most difficult part for me is to change out the thermo det endcaps and relocating the one rivet on the bottom of the tank. I remember reading Dennis' thread on the changes and will revisit that.

Has anyone tried modifying their thermo det endcaps to be concave (like maybe heating it up and gently pressing in a spherical shaped thing) vs creating new ones altogether?

Another question I have is the 1/8" size rivets. Is the size measured from the outmost diameter or the inner diameter hole? Image attached:

Some general photos

Test fitting on a bust

[Aradun]

Yo Andy! The TD end caps are glued on that detonator pretty well. I got one off with a bit of patience but then cracked the other leading to my having to replace the caps. I used some pvc plumbing end cap and with sanding and a dremel was able to manufacture my own. Details are in my WIP.

If you do get the end caps off, you can try to give them a hot bath and then take a tennis ball and press it down into the top flat surface, and that should give you a little concave. You could go the hairdryer route too and do the same thing.

For the tank, after removing the rivet, I used some Green Stuff to fill the whole. The key there is to not do any sanding because it’ll be nigh impossible for you to match the RS paint. The Green Stuff can be worked so that it only fills the hole and you can get it pretty flat with you fingers. Then once dry give it a dab of paint. No one will be the wiser, especially because it sits so low.

[woobiee]

47 minutes ago, AradunFF said:

Yo Andy! The TD end caps are glued on that detonator pretty well. I got one off with a bit of patience but then cracked the other leading to my having to replace the caps. I used some pvc plumbing end cap and with sanding and a dremel was able to manufacture my own. Details are in my WIP.

If you do get the end caps off, you can try to give them a hot bath and then take a tennis ball and press it down into the top flat surface, and that should give you a little concave. You could go the hairdryer route too and do the same thing.

For the tank, after removing the rivet, I used some Green Stuff to fill the whole. The key there is to not do any sanding because it’ll be nigh impossible for you to match the RS paint. The Green Stuff can be worked so that it only fills the hole and you can get it pretty flat with you fingers. Then once dry give it a dab of paint. No one will be the wiser, especially because it sits so low.

Thanks Dennis!

Do you know the answer to my 1/8" rivet question? I understand the rivets should be 1/8" in width for Lancer, but is that measuring the overall, rivet, or is it the diameter of the hole? I Currently the rivets used are 1/4" wide overall, with a 1/8" center hole.

[Aradun]

That’s something you want [mention]Chopper [/mention] or [mention]Retrofire [/mention] to weigh in on as they would be on the review team for the Lancer app.

How you measure rivets can be a little confusing. I know how they are measured by industry standards, but am unsure whether the 1/8” reference in the CRL is for the diameter of the hat (i.e., the hole you reference) or the diameter of the head (i.e., the washer like portion).

[woobiee]

2 minutes ago, AradunFF said:

That’s something you want [mention]Chopper [/mention] or [mention]Retrofire [/mention] to weigh in on as they would be on the review team for the Lancer app.

How you measure rivets can be a little confusing. I know how they are measured by industry standards, but am unsure whether the 1/8” reference in the CRL is for the diameter of the hat (i.e., the hole you reference) or the diameter of the head (i.e., the washer like portion).

Do you have the hat and head dimensions of your rivets used for your Lancer approved armor? I sure hope the 1/8" is referencing the hat, otherwise I'll have to replace all my rivets!

[Aradun]

Hang tight. The armorers will give you the specs and their advice is what you want to base your build on.

I’m happy to check mine for you, but won’t be able to get back to you until after work on Monday. Everything’s packed away at the moment, but I’m sure one of the armorers will get back to you before then.

[Chopper]

The problem that arose with the rivets is that people stated using these large flange head rivets. My guess is that some builders started shipping them with their kits as they stated showing up about 2ish years ago. The issue has caused some confusion in the past.

Put simply, you don't want to use these:

These, which look like the type that you have, should be fine for Level 2.

And before you start altering your armor, if you want to give us a look at your end caps and tank bottom, or anything else you have questions about, that'd be awesome. @Retrofireand I are here if you want to get feedback on anything. 

[woobiee]

23 minutes ago, Chopper said:

The problem that arose with the rivets is that people stated using these large flange head rivets. My guess is that some builders started shipping them with their kits as they stated showing up about 2ish years ago. The issue has caused some confusion in the past.

Put simply, you don't want to use these:

These, which look like the type that you have, should be fine for Level 2.

And before you start altering your armor, if you want to give us a look at your end caps and tank bottom, or anything else you have questions about, that'd be awesome. @Retrofireand I are here if you want to get feedback on anything. 

Thanks chopper. Yes of course I’d run things with you all before I do any permanent armor alterations. I think I got a pretty good handle on soft parts so far. 

[Chopper]

Sounds good Andy, let us know. Looking forward to having you as a part of the garrison in the near future as well.

Also your build is good motivation for me to work on assembling my own RS kit, which has been sitting in a box for longer than I'd like to admit, hah. 

[woobiee]

10 hours ago, Chopper said:

Sounds good Andy, let us know. Looking forward to having you as a part of the garrison in the near future as well.

Also your build is good motivation for me to work on assembling my own RS kit, which has been sitting in a box for longer than I'd like to admit, hah. 

Oh whyy?! I thought you were already running with a RS kit. Get on it son! Hahah Hope it was stored in the dark otherwise it'd be all yellow.

[Aradun]

I thought you were already running with a RS kit.

That makes two of us .

[Aradun]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you Andy, but I see Chopper gave you the info you needed.

The rivets RS used on my kit were 1/8” rivets with 5/16” heads. For my Lancer app, I only had to replace the rivets for my knee armor and I used 1/8” rivets with 1/4” heads. You might not think a 1/16” makes much difference, but it is noticeable. As I had to move the rivet for the tank for Lancer anyway, I replaced it with the same rivets used for my knee armor.

I don’t know the actual industry size (44, 45, etc.) as I just looked for what I had on hand with the smallest head and a small grip. If I had to guess I’d say a 44 or 43 which would be a 4/32” diameter rivet with a 4/16” body length or 4/32” diameter rivet with a 3/16” body length respectively. Keep in mind that the size does not account for the width of the head (the washer like portion of the rivet), which is actually the width you want to compare.

Again, as Chopper said run any questions by the armorers if you’re unsure or hesitant, and throw up
some pics for them to see and give you feedback before you change anything. These guys know their stuff and won’t steer you wrong.

[woobiee]

I really appreciate the info Dennis. Upon further inspection, I can conclude that my rivets are also 1/8" rivets with 5/16" heads like your originals. So even though you had 1/8" rivets, you still had to change them out because the heads were a bit too large? I'll certainly bring this up to the armorers when the time comes. Was it a PIA to get the old rivets out?

[Aradun]

No problem brother, but definitely check in with the armorers as you said.

 

The good news is that they should be aluminum and not steel. You can check yours with a magnet to be sure. If it doesn’t stick then they’re aluminum.

 

IF you have to change out the rivets in your knee armor for Lancer then use a cobalt drill bit and go slow and steady. They should come out like butter.

 

I won’t tell you how I removed mine, but it didn’t involve a drill bit and it would probably give Chopper a stroke , so I won’t go there. I didn’t have a cobalt bit handy and I was too cheap and lazy to run to Home Depot to pick one up for $4, but I certainly would get the bit if I ever had to remove a rivet again .

[Aradun]

Here’s a tip as you work on your build. I thought of it last night as I was measuring the rivets. I have the belt secured to my cod with hook and loop to prevent it from shifting and sagging while trooping, and I was only three troops in when I cracked my belt in two spots when pulling it free from the cod. I suspect that all RS vac pulls would have similar weak points in the belt.

 

I fixed it by making some abs paste and reinforcing the front and back joints in the belt as pictured below. You may want to consider doing the same now if those joints look weak or thin just as an added precaution.

 

 

[woobiee]

8 hours ago, AradunFF said:

Here’s a tip as you work on your build. I thought of it last night as I was measuring the rivets. I have the belt secured to my cod with hook and loop to prevent it from shifting and sagging while trooping, and I was only three troops in when I cracked my belt in two spots when pulling it free from the cod. I suspect that all RS vac pulls would have similar weak points in the belt.

I fixed it by making some abs paste and reinforcing the front and back joints in the belt as pictured below. You may want to consider doing the same now if those joints look weak or thin just as an added precaution.

Thanks for the heads up. I shall certainly examine this when I get to the belt portion of the build.

[woobiee]

Today I got my flight suit back from my tailor. We targeted the lower half of the flight suit, from waist on down. Please ignore the belt and drop boxes because I have not adjusted them yet -- it is only to illustrate roughly where my waist is. Same goes with the bund. I also think I was standing off kilter and some things look off centered. Let me know how this looks but here are my observations:

• The legs feel a little tight around my legs...I think we went too far with the suppression? Does it look this way in photos?
• The thigh straps are way too tight. This came with the suit and I think new straps are required -- maybe 0.5-1" longer straps? Is it located around the right place on the thigh?
• I think the butt flat came out pretty decently.
• I will be adding pant stirrups in the future to help bring down excess fabric
• Is the cod fitting and sitting in the right place?

[Chopper]

Hey man, everything seems to look pretty good so far. Since I know you're interested in Level 2, my comments below are regarding Level 2 fit and adjustments.

The legs don't look super tight in the photos. Does it feel like you're going to rip out of them if you bend your knees or squat?

The thigh straps do look a little tight. You want them to be snug, but not overly pulling the fabric and suede, or like, cutting the circulation off of your legs.

Your thigh straps should be about half-way between the belt and your knee armor, but it's more of a ballpark rather than a perfect/exact measurement for placement. I'm making an eyeball estimate, but I'd say yours could come up about 1 inch if you're replacing/adjusting them anyhow.

The cod is fitting and sitting in a good place. My concern from a Level 2 perspective is that the arc on the cod seems fairly high.

@Retrofire any comments on your end?

[woobiee]

Awesome thanks Corey!

Early this evening I scrutinized my fitting with the CRL images and I totally agree with your feedback.

I did a test and inverted the straps so it wrapped around my inner thigh (vs the correct outer side) and the legs felt much better -- the legs felt more relaxed thus allowing the riding patches to lay naturally. I am now confident that the thigh straps are indeed too tight. I should have suspected something was off when I first received the flight suit from IB. The straps were aligned inside the inner thigh out of the box. I have a good feeling they missed that little detail and measured out the straps to wrap around the inner thigh vs the outer. Sigh.

As for the cod piece, my plan is to reduce the height between the very bottom of the cod piece and the arc detail by about 1 inch and rework the shaping in this area. I have plenty of extra cod above the belt so I should have enough to slide this down a tiny bit to compensate. I may even lower the belt by a hair if needed.

Good call on the thigh straps being too low. That's an easy adjustment

[Retrofire]

@Chopper not much to add that you already haven’t covered. Andy you’re doing a great job so far so keep it up. One thing I do when I dress is that once I get my knees on and before I put my boots on I pull the excess fabric taught below my knees. That helps get rid of the creasing/bunching that inevitably happens. I did end up adding stirrups to my flight suit to help keep everything in order while I troop but it’s good practice to adjust that type of stuff as you put on each layer. Remember too that your going to be spending a few hours trooping in the gear so keep it comfortable especially when bending or stooping. The littles love it when you get down to their level and visit with them and you don’t want things too tight.