bugdozer Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Except that if word goes round that your order gets ignored, he might find that his orders begin to dwindle. I'm lucky enough to not be in the position of needing to order armour, but if I was a newbie, there's no way in hell I'd order MC kit after reading this thread. Bear in mind that some who want to join the 501st would have a biker scout as their first choice of costume... but if faced with a choice between so-so armour you can get quickly, or better armour that might take over a year, it's enough to tip them into thinking "Stuff that, I will be a TK/Tie Pilot/Guy who says "You Rebel Scum" instead, because I know I can get the costume faster without compromising quality". We have no way of measuring how many people that now wear other costumes would have been biker scouts if there were not ridiculous wait times from their chosen manufacturer. We have no way of knowing how many orders MC is losing because of this thread, but you can bet there will be some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkisstillalive Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I will bring this to their attention without hesitation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I am also a member who knows Cal personally. Great guy, often gets in over his head. I knew that full well when I ordered my kit, and knew that it would take forever to get it. All of us in MG know his projected wait times are crap. That said, he really needs to stop telling people max 32 weeks when it takes much more in reality. I only recommend MonCal kits when I know someone isn't in a hurry to get their stuff, or values quality over how fast they're getting their kit. There are tons of variables and YMMV. (For example, I recommended SC armor to a gal who wants to join, because as a handler, I know from experience that MC biker kits are an absolute PITA if you're a size C cup or larger. I've fought the bund-armor gap with a couple ladies in our garrison. For myself, I ordered the MC because I'm small-chested and didn't feel like trimming an SC down to a woman's size so I don't get bruises on the insides of my arms.) Now, I haven't tried to talk to Cal yet about my latest problem yet, but I woke up this morning and discovered that my belt has yellowed. It has never been outside, I've always kept it my box-o-parts, and I'm not sure if the rest of the armor will follow suit. The quality on MC kits are historically above standard, but this is one of a few instances where I'm thinking the quality is declining. My friend has a MC TK that has all sorts of things wrong with it. Another friend got boots from him and they were falling apart after less than six months of trooping. I'm honestly a bit intimidated to try and get anything fixed, because I know how long it takes to get your stuff in the first place. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flykiller Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 "Now, I haven't tried to talk to Cal yet about my latest problem yet, but I woke up this morning and discovered that my belt has yellowed. It has never been outside, I've always kept it my box-o-parts, and I'm not sure if the rest of the armor will follow suit. The quality on MC kits are historically above standard, but this is one of a few instances where I'm thinking the quality is declining. ----> Ouch ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southscout Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 On a side note, seems like snowies are shipping now at least. I have two garrison mates who got theirs this week. Skickat från min LG-D802 via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flykiller Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 17 months and still not delivered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navajo Bro Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 "Now, I haven't tried to talk to Cal yet about my latest problem yet, but I woke up this morning and discovered that my belt has yellowed. It has never been outside, I've always kept it my box-o-parts, and I'm not sure if the rest of the armor will follow suit. The quality on MC kits are historically above standard, but this is one of a few instances where I'm thinking the quality is declining. ----> Ouch ! Interesting - we have a member who waited 18 months for his AT-AT Driver and after only like six months it's turning yellow too! He's only worn it like 10 times and it's in a crate in the house climate controlled. Oh, and a few days ago at the troop like 9 parts just randomly fell off. We don't refer anyone to them anymore which is a shame because when I joined he was top notch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunk Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I got the impression that MonCal figures he's got the goods people want and they can pretty much do what they want and ya'll just sit there and eat it to get their stuff.... This is what a lot of new people belive because they don't know. "If you want the best, you must wait" BS! I've been down a friends house who makes armor & he has pulled 2 full sets of TK armor, trimmed & boxed up in 2 hours with me standing there talking to him. Stormtrooper armor has a whole lot more pieces than the Scout. I know armor is expensive & it takes some people a long time to save up. An 18mo wait is unacceptable. He has no time for comunication. He will communicate through 1 person on a cetain forum or if you lucky you get a group email about twice a year. Favorite excuse "I have a real life" Well check it out "mr armor maker who does not deliver" We all have a real life too. My wife has no complaints when I work on my orders. She knows if Im bringing in extra money "this weekend" is set aside to work on orders. Sometimes real life does get in the way, but not an 18mo delay. So anyone who says he is the best doesn't know what they are talking about. I'd tell them to "Move Along" if they havn't bought thier kit yet. SC makes a great kit & their service is unmatched. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flykiller Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Has someone already talked to him about the yellow problem ? PS : I hope to be delivered in the 18th month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugdozer Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I'd be interested to hear from those who have made their own vacformed scout armour, just how many actual man-hours are involved in making it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunk Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I'd be interested to hear from those who have made their own vacformed scout armour, just how many actual man-hours are involved in making it? The hard part is making the bucks. Once you have those in hand the actual process to pull armor is apx 3min per pull. My friends vac table is about 2'x2'. He places about 4-6 small bucks on the table, warms the sheet of plastic then pulls the sheet over the bucks on the vacum side. Instantly you have the 4-6 pieces ready to be cut out. Larger pieces chest, back ect would take one pull each. I would think if you have a whole set of Scout bucks, you can pull a full set including helmet in less than an hour. Like I said I've been down his house where he has pulled 2 entire Stormtroper kits with helmet, cut, boxed up & had them ready to ship in less than 2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudioCreations Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'd be interested to hear from those who have made their own vacformed scout armour, just how many actual man-hours are involved in making it? I'll assume you are talking about vacummforming,trimming, and boxing the armor. We'll assume the vacuumbucks are already made. Currently SC uses a 2x2 vactable, which is actually 21x21 inches for the vacuum platen. This allows for a scout kit with helmet to be made from 7 squares of plastic. Each square takes me about 5 minutes to turn around. 3 minutes of heating, 20 seconds of vacuum pressure, 15 seconds cooling, then removing the plastic and reloading the frame. Add an extra 3 minutes for the helmet back piece, that is a special part that takes 2 people to make. That means it takes about 38 minutes for vacforming an entire Scout. And that's just vacuumforming. Trimming takes 45 minutes on the bandsaw, deburring takes 50 minutes (whodathunkthat?) , bubble wrapping takes 25 , decal organizing 15, boot holster assembly 15 , Belt clip drilling/folding 10, instructions 10, Postal label/boxing/customs-forms 25 minutes. Now multiple by 10, because, if you are going to make 1 armor, you might as well make 10 (or maybe just 5). I can fully see how Moncal can get behind. He offers a slew of costumes for the fans. That takes mold management, materials management and a ton of time organization. Not to mention to factor in when a high-dollar client walks in and drops $10K on his desk to stop fan-costuming and work on their industrial-sized project. That gets you behind faster than anything... because hey... why not go for the bigger money, right? NOTE: I would like to address the "Yellowing" issue of the plastic. These new fangled eco-friendly house lights are throwing UV rays. The incandescent bulbs did not. I've had a number of fans come to me about yellowing, and all I can say is get a spray can of Krylon Fusion Gloss White and schedule a day of painting. That's how the movie suits are done, that how we might have to keep our armor from yellowing. ABS plastic is not naturally UV resistant, and most of the yellowing occurs from UV exposure (some yellowing can occur from air pollution). You can buy UV resistant ABS plastic, sure, but you will spend double the money to get it. Generally , propmakers use what is known as utility-grade plastic. That means it's a mixture of recycled ABS plastics. If you spend a little more (25-30%) you can get 'virgin' ABS, which is fresh manufactured plastic with no recycled material added... but it's still not UV resistant. "Acrylic capped" ABS plastic is UV resistant, I've purchased that in the past, but the acrylic material is very rough on the band saw and does not vacuumform down as smooth as the straight ABS stuff. It's more rigid and doesn't conform to the small details as nice. I only used that one year, 2012, and never ordered it again. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 You have to factor in the Bucks though.... That's where the vast majority of the time goes. I made my original fibreglass panel 'moulds' years ago, and they were spaced over about an 18 month period. They were then converted bucks for forming about 3 years ago, and that process took a couple of weeks. They still get 'time' for updating and general maintenance. So it's difficult to say exactly how many hours went in to the construction of them... But it was a lot. Now, my Colonial Marine stuff is more quantifiable as I kept a slightly better record of the time spent. From start to finish, the bucks took me about 3 months to build to a state where I was happy with them (they've still undergone a few revisions since then...). And that was about 30hrs a week... so 30x5=150x4=600x3=1800hrs. And that's no small beans! And again... it's not all about just sitting at the former pulling plastic. I'm sure Jeff can regain us with tales of how many hours he probably spends answering emails, responding to enquiries, assisting with queries, speaking to suppliers, collecting materials, doing the accounts and all other myriad dull stuff that saps your time away. We all know how stuff can build up, a sudden unexpected glitch in the programme, and suddenly you're behind with stuff (flight suits etc....) so it's not about the couple of hours each unit takes to produce... There's more to it than that. The fundamental issue here isn't the wait time, it's the wait time AFTER HAVING PAID. Once you've parted with your cash, you're bound to that seller. Once it goes past the 40 days or what ever for PayPal, you loose your buyer protection. At that point you're out on a limb... You've got to wait and hope that your vendor will come through. Too many times on here we've seen people start up runs of stuff and it all fall apart. (Not MonCal I dare say, there issue seems to be just time... not eventual delivery). And whilst you're waiting... All you can do is sing the praises of your vendor, lest they get the hump with you and delay your order even further in favour of those more amenable. Yeah MonCal has the goods... But he's also had peoples money for up to 18 months... And for me, that's the bit that is not on. At all. Yes, he's probably chasing the larger dollar that's coming with the work with Anovos (from what I can make out), but that still shouldn't allow him to ignore the smaller dollar which he already has in his pocket from the previous customers. If you've got the dollar... You're duty bound to provide the goods. Plain and simple. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Voorhees Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The bucks take alot of time yes, but for the question folks are asking i dont think thats relevant. Im guessing that MC's bucks are already made since plenty of us have his armor One question would be if he had multiple sets of bucks to speed up production. Of course he'd also need multiple people and vac tables to make it efficient. Also keep in mind he doesnt just make scouts. He does snowies TK's and TIE's as well. I recommend both MC and SC for scout armor and always state the pros and cons of both so the member/recruit has a good idea how it will go down and can decide for themselves. Both SC and MC have excellent quality product. As far as i know, SC only makes scouts so in the sense of making armor he couldnt possibly be as busy as someone making 4 different armors, so of course SC's wait times are less. Like Skyscout had mentioned earlier i usually wont recommend MC to someone doing a scout for their first costume because usually they want to get trooping ASAP. That said, i do mention them and like i said, let the recruit decide. I personally dont mind waiting since i have other costumes, but i will also check the legion boards and here for armor if i need it because sometimes folks will sell their armor or their spot in line and that cuts down the wait. MC is not the only vendor that has a long wait thats usually longer than they say. Its fairly common more recently as the legion has gotten more popular the armor makers get more orders, get busier, and take more time. Now i understand that, like was mentioned before, "you dont know these people and they could be taking off with your money" ..but you have to trust the membership here when they tell you a certain vendor is trustworthy and you will get your stuff. If you cant do that, this likely isnt the hobby for you. We all wait for our stuff ...alot of the time longer than we'd like, and there is always the occasional vendor that just falls apart and drops off the face of the earth, but in most cases, we DO get it and quickly forget how long it took because of how happy we are to have it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarintyr Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I got my set from KS. Never ordered from MC. The only thing wrong with my set was the missing cummerbund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 My scout kit gets babied, it stays under blankets the vast majority of the time. The only thing I can think of is ambient sunlight in the areas I work. My living room is all sunlit and my dining room is lit by incandescents only. By contrast, a friend of mine just finished her MC kit after having it for seven YEARS and it's still white as snow. I have decided to just paint it white, but the belt is one piece and is subject to the most flex, so it will crack and chip eventually. I talked to another armor maker about it and he told me to test a scrap of the plastic to see if it is actually old ABS by bending it. I have yet to do that, but I plan to on the pieces I cut off the shoulder strap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Forrest Patrol Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I got my set from KS. Never ordered from MC. The only thing wrong with my set was the missing cummerbund You should email them if you paid $100 for the cummerbund and they didn't send it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarintyr Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Well the set said it included soft parts. They took my measurements but no bund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flykiller Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Armor received. I've been waiting 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinxx44 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 In regards to the flex, it may be time consuming and maybe not the best option, but in my experience in making costumes, particularly on flexible pieces like latex, I use a latex mask paint made by monstermakers.com and apply with an airbrush. It's designed to flex a bunch and not flake or chip. You can make it yourself, I just forget the ratio/recipe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plushie Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Well, and don't allow other projects to put these on hold. That's my biggest concern. If their association with Anovos is holding up production of the kits that have already been paid for, that's not cool. And that's pretty much what Cal told me when inquiring about the delay. People shouldn't be forced to pay up front, then get bumped because of a more profitable arrangement came along. He was also preoccupied while working on his LandSpeeder replica. That's been a side project for a couple of years. Great looking speeder, no denying that, buuuut when you have customers who paid in full waiting.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 In regards to the flex, it may be time consuming and maybe not the best option, but in my experience in making costumes, particularly on flexible pieces like latex, I use a latex mask paint made by monstermakers.com and apply with an airbrush. It's designed to flex a bunch and not flake or chip. You can make it yourself, I just forget the ratio/recipe. Thanks man! I will keep it in mind for the future, as I do not own an airbrush. But I have mixed up pax before for makeup purposes, perhaps it is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navajo Bro Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Just another mention, we have yet one more member who had his MonCal Biker armor for only 6 months or so and it is COMPLETELY and utterly yellow. I have MonCal armor from 2007 and it is still as white as can be, I don't know anything about making this stuff but maybe there was something wrong with his last few batches of plastic? Or some type of change? No way could this be normal lmao.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flykiller Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Just another mention, we have yet one more member who had his MonCal Biker armor for only 6 months or so and it is COMPLETELY and utterly yellow. Has he been told for that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I ordered my armor on January 1st...I'm #25 in the order queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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