TB5994 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Right then... Been away from these forums for a fair while, seeing as I sold my Scout and Kashyyyk kit years ago, some might remember me, your all wearing ddpm undersuits because of me Just got my Kashyyyk cleared, not the one I won on this forum in an auction PHGfett ran years back, but another troopers second hand suit, previously cleared. Now i'm old school.... I see what I see, and use logic to explain why I do what I do, make what I make ect... the current CRL is confusing to me to say the least.... Boots, where in the film are they white? I've seen the snippet LFL pre production render, but to me, that makes as much sense as wanting to make an accurate Boba fett, then using McQuarrie artwork as reference... what you see in the film is a tan boot, with a tan sole, inches from white straps on the calf... This is what I see.... same in every screen grab... Whilst we have this pic up, why is the crotch "grey"? its tan in this and every shot I can find... Secondly, the bund... where is it two colour of grey, darker than the base colour of the armour???? now this has a shadow cast on it and its still not grey/dark grey... you can see the shadow line accross the pouch top right.... Pouches, multicam? thats a green base cammo, the Kashyyyk has a tan/sand base, also its a disruptive pattern, like Atacs, Multicam is rounded.... Now is it just me, or are you guys running with pics I cant see? lol and what is it with this forum, my "return" button doesnt work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 great idea. yes the CRL is brand spanking new it is however agreed by concensus by guys who had access to different levels of access to different types of source material. Also to guys who have researched the costume when it was probably shady DVD. No high res 3D renders, no blue ray or high def stuff. unlike original trilogy stuff, the pictures are inconsistent. so a decision has to be made. But it needs to have enough lead time so as not to create a shifting goal post for new troopers. its would seem that with biker chicks new armour now coming online, and renewed interest in the costume, now is the right time to start the next round of CRL chat. As before. Please post up questions - then will will have a summary document and consultation (like the last one). Till then the Kashyyyk Trooper CRL Jan 2013 is in FULL effect guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 the 'bund has never sat well with me. I always thought it was a single tone grey, with the slightly darker shade cos of shadows and weathering. the shoes - the pics that were shown to me were snippets of 3D renders - and are clearly white theres a great thread here abt colour testing - http://forum.bikersc...?showtopic=6025 unfortunately his CB was turned down for UKG clearance for having a tan shoe btw instead of white yeah multicam which is heavily weathered with white and grey or camo like the armour - multicam was decided on by Mr Bungle. The cloth with camo like the armour was a new development. As neither are perfect; both are accepted. we may need a new base for the undersuit, with the old 95 DPMs now discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 But if we strive for consistency, I bet I can give you 5x the ammount of pictures that prove that the boots are tan, not white, and the bund is one colour light grey... not two tone grey/dark grey... so the excuse of no access to hidef ect is tosh... you wrote the crl last year... not last decade multicam heavily weathered? really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Now I'm not planning on getting involved in the CRL debate, because the Kashyyk is not my kind of costume. But camouflage interests me.. I can agree that multicam is a hard edged camo pattern and the reference pics don't seem to show something that is a little more blended. ATACS would indeed fit the bill. It is a sand base, with a hint of green. http://www.greyops.net/2009/11/new-camo-pattern-tacs.html As for the patch.... How about OATMEAL... It's not tan, and it's not grey! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackout-Faux-Suede-Curtain-Lining-Fabric-13-colours-/160918792220?pt=UK_Crafts_Fabric&var=&hash=item257781e81c You might need to scroll to the Oatmeal option. I use it on my SnowScout and it's a real good colour. It's not 'orangey' like a Tan, and it's not grey.... it's sort of an in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 agreed on the atacs and the oatmeal But seeing as you have to paint the entire costume, why not paint the pouches, rather than cut corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 never said mine was perfect, but at least it follows the current CRL which - I followed, not re-wrote to fit my interpretation of the pictures heres Mr Bungle's the multicam was decided on when Mr Bungle got his cleared the 1st time round way back in 2009. We just continued to use it. if you can come up with a better alternative - happy to hear about it. If you notice - his cummerbund is actually the one you are sporting, with the heavy weathering to give it that 2 tone look/shading. And yes - I know, hes got yellow in that paint scheme, but things have moved on and yellow has been removed since. as for the picture you posted - yes heavy weathering. Really. the pic you have of my bund above is to show off the multicam below PRIOR to weathering. this was my attempt to weather it after. I have since gone on heavier on the pouches and the drop boxes too. Its a combination of white, grey and black. Some brown tossed in too. as for the boot - I discussed this at length with our own garrison GML on another of my recent builds. There were tons of pictures of the costume from the SWTOR trailer. And 2 pictures of the 3D renders. The 3D renders trumped high def screen caps each time. It was felt by the moderators then that was the way to interpret it. I was happy with this. No arguments were brought up during the consultation last year. As far as I know, the current stock of CB newbies are happy with this. But we can let the community decide how we want to llook As for you suggestion about re-painting the pouches - its already in the current CRL -so both options are currently accepted "Pouches are either cloth covered and painted with camo pattern or covered with multi-cam cloth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I've been making the pouch sets in tan (khaki) and offering them for sale. That way the owner can paint the pouches to match the armor. I even painted a set just to see what it would look like. (Weathered also.) People seem to like it. I know it could be blended a bit more. But that was just a trial set. By each person painting their own armor in attemping to re-create a CGI image from EP. III, each one will be different. Alike in style, but not exactly the same. It's not a cookie-cutter costume like the TB, where there was a tangible costume to copy. This has been in debate for the last year. (Each of the Kashyyyk CRL's.) Perhaps these identifying parts could be in consideration for some sort of "Lancer" status, in the future. Seeing how there is no such thing for the Kashyyyk Trooper at the present. (Maybe call it a "Swamper" status. No lances here.) I also like the ATACS, and the oatmeal color. I think I had mentioned that the color of the riding patch didn't look grey, but we all agreed on it. And I still don't think that the elbow straps are two separate black straps. It looks like a one-piece strap with black in the center stripe and two grey stripes on the outside, Check the picture that TB5994 (Tony) provided. I had put this picture up in another thread. I'm not here to attack the CRL's. The KST's that have been approved are fine. (Such things discussed above could be upgrades to their costume.) All of this could go up for discussion with Heatshock or Marcel, or whomever the new Detachment Leader will be. (If they feel that the topic is worthy of discussion.) And nobody's Kashyyyk Trooper will be perfect. And no two Kashyyyk Troopers will be alike. If the clones were real, they probably painted the camo on themselves, just like Gree and any other Division in the Grand Army. (327th, 212th, and of course the 41st Elite.) Shoot, mine's as old as Tom's. It has the old style to it also. But, It was cleared back then, and I still troop in it to this day. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 can I please see the screen grabs of the cummerbund and the boots used to justify the crl? not that pre production snippet of the boot... screen grabs anyone have them? still not seen any... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 think the strap thing was brought up end of 2012/start 2013? http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=10371&hl=&fromsearch=1 this is definately grey me thinks. but as here was no feed back at the time, i didnt change the consensus of black. as for screen grabs, no we went with the 3d models (what you call the preproduction pictures). if you go through much f the discussions over the last few years, various parts of the puzzle were available. although to my knowledge, no one complete picture has been seen. mr bungles word was good enough for me. and its been well established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4505Marcel Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Good to see you back on here Tony, watching this with interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 So what your saying is you haven't gone for screen seen images... but from a single 3d model image only one person has seen, "but you took his word for it"..... Seriously??? can't see me rushing to change anything, based on one persons "word".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Recon Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 ... Hmm, this topic seems to have gotten a bit rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbungle Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 tony, take a deep breath.......several of us on here have been working this costume for a couple of years now.......there are full model sheets that ILM used to make the film, that is what i based my costume on and my based my opinion on when making costume choices..... on the pouches, i was never happy with mine, but i do not like plastic pouches because they are cloth.... every pic i have seen shows a white boot........or a dirty white boot with tan soles.... remember kids...it is only a costume........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Rofl agreed guys. And I agree with Death Recon keep it civil. And Tony we have all seen the pictures as i said. But they are all curtailed for legal reasons. You must haven't seen them then? Even curtailed there are about 5-6 different ones. Like I said feel free to go back and review em. The community has seen em, reviewed them and agreed to a set standard. It isn't perfect, but a standard was agreed to by those that had an interest in the costume at the time the CRL was decided on. If you and your GML are happy to accept a costume that does not match the current published CRL for it, congrats to you. that I will leave between you, your GML and your CO. If you wish to change the CRL. Present it here. We will let the community decide, and I'll change if there is support and merit for it. But I am certainly NOT changing for 1 trooper what the larger community has already discussed and decided on over the last year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 basing a CRL on one single image, that apparently cant be shared is ludicrous. Why not base it on the 100's of individual screen captures that EVERYONE can see? I'm not asking you to change what you both have decided on, but to justify it with the images YOU have based it on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 the pouches being material is not in question, the pouches being of multicam material is... as they clearly are not. Your CRL states the cummerbund should be a two tone grey when seen on screen it is a single light base colour... rigid and imo incorrect, then you state the pouches can be either accurately painted to match the screen seen pouches... or multicam???? wtf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4505Marcel Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I can see where Tony is coming from, are we saying the current CRL doesnt reflect what is seen on screen? THe CRL has only recently gone up and will require reference pictures i.e screen grabs and individual parts. It was discussed that we need more reference for the normal scout so the same will apply here. But I will say if there is something new to bring to the table, please discuss it and decide as a community. With the scout we have all sorts of reference, MOM, blue ray ect but screen grabs will always win the day as it is what we are striving to look like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think this is the main point of contention here... (I'm only getting involved because there are two of my good chums in here potentially going head to head and don't want any fisticuffs.) The CRL has been up for discussion and based upon some 3D renders that are not in general circulation. Screen accuracy would in my opinion dictate that what is seen "on screen" takes precedent over any other source material. (I cite the MotM Scout exhibit in this... We use it as a reference, but because it has some omissions and we don't 'actually' know it was a screen used suit, then it will always take a back seat to what we see in the films.) There will always be discrepancies between the frames in CGI. The artists are lazy and don't add in the minute detail frame by frame that we costumers crave. To cite the 3D renders as source material, they should be used as evidence to substantiate the claim. If they can't be published for what ever reason, then are they suitable? Do the 3D renders substantiate or contradict the screen grabs? If they contradict the screen grabs, what conclusions can be drawn from them? Does the CRL have to be rigid? I cite the two views... Tan or Grey... I have put in something in between. Could the CRL be put to say Tan/Grey. Will the possible ambiguity of this cause issue? (I know on my Snow Scout they said tan because the source drawings made it look a little tan coloured, but in reality Tan actually looked gash, so I changed it to a more suitable one and everyone agreed it was much better in the flesh). The issue of white/off white. (don't get me started on Scout bund / pouch combinations...) is one that has been around for ages... Not in this sense, but the similar argument remains. If something is weathered... when does it cease be to white and go to off white. Just sling some dirt in it. White becomes a bit more.... well..... tan coloured. So whilst Tony is probably a little late at the altar to stop the marriage.... very remiss of him I'm sure he will agree.... Is it too late to have that marriage annulled? This is the point of DISCUSSION. my view is to not see it as "This is my view and I'm sticking to it!", but "what is the other persons view and how can I modify that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thank you. All I ask is that the two main issues be clarified with the images used to cement them in crl stone, be seen by all. There is a long list of "must be.." with no screen captured images, just a few shots of two staff members costumes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Recon Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I would love to know if there's a possibility of things changing because I don't want to colour my TAN boots WHITE just to have the CRL change to a more "screen accurate" TAN again... I was going to be painting my pouches and armour at the same time so the pattern will be what I see as the "Screen actuate" as the CRL says. I guess I'll leave my boots till last and hopefully by then a definite word will come down if CRL will change or not. Keep it civil guys we all want our armour to look the best but there are guidelines we have to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilledmilk Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 what iv been reading to get a more white look on ur boots is take like baby power and really rub it into the suede, ill see if i can find the link or instructions again, that way they will be "white" with weathering, and if it changes u can scrub them out to be tan again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 So what your saying is you haven't gone for screen seen images... but from a single 3d model image only one person has seen, "but you took his word for it"..... Seriously??? can't see me rushing to change anything, based on one persons "word".... (Take this how you will. I don't care.) Apparently your Kashyyyk Troooer is already approved, why would you feel the need to "rush to change anything?" Post up some pics of your Kashyyyk Trooper. All of the current CRL's were agreed upon by more than just two people. All of this can be brought up and discussed...in a civil manner. Here are some suggestions that incorporate most of what has been brought up. (I don't care if anyone likes it or not. It's only a suggestion. Remember that!) The current CRL's list the following: 1. Cummerbund - Dark grey base, with lighter grey vertical straps. 2. Boots - Main body of boot is white. 3. Riding patch - Grey riding patch on inner thigh. 4. Pouches - Pouches are either cloth covered and painted with camo pattern or covered with multi-cam cloth. Yes, Tony, you have provided a good screen shot. Cheers to you! (It's been posted on other threads as well.) It does bring up some points. Provide the 5x amout of pictures that you say you have to back up your points. I can only see what's in the movie as it plays. Yes, I can push the pause button on my DVD player, but I don't have the ability to put it here. Please post these picture for all to see. It will help with this discussion. And for that purpose, I would also like to see the "pre-production shots" of the Kashyyyk Trooper character from ILM. I have only seen CGI detail pics that look like a clay model. This is not an attack on either Tony, Nate, or Tom. Why can't any of these source pictures (Movie stills or pre-production/concept-whatever pics) be used to help with the CRL discussions? The current CRL's were decided upon by not just two of the staff members, but with input from those that already have an approved Kashyyyk costume. To me, this is the most complicated clone costume out there. I believe it is the only one, other than the Galactic Marine, that doesn't require a majority of it being armor. As you can see on the 501st site, there are no pics of the Kashyyyk and it still states that the CRL is a work in progress. What is listed is an agreement from many viewpoints. So, that's how it is right now. Those are the current CRL's. Now, by bringing up the different colors that you see, new things can be discussed about the costume. My suggestion is to have standards that are set now, and add to it for a Kashyyyk version of a Lancer. For a regular approved Kashyyyk Trooper, incorporate the current CRL. To increase the detail of the costume, have a "Lancer status." In such, that the additional requirements for a "Lancer" (I still say "Swamper") status would have: 1. Cummerbund - Light grey in base color with grey vertical straps, and rust colored spots and brown or tan colored "splash" or "spray" accents to provide the details of weathering. 2. Boot - Tan boot (most military have this style) with tan or khaki sole. 3. Riding patch - Tan/khaki colored riding patch on inner thigh. 4. Pouches - Tan/khaki cloth pouches painted to match the camo style on the armor. Now, that doesn't mean that the Kashyyyk Troopers that are already approved have to make these changes, it would be listed as an upgrade to the costume for the advanced status. END OF LINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB5994 Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Changed a few bits already, raised the bund up, now sits at correct height, straps are now a lighter grey, they look black in the pic! Chafe pad is there, you just cant see it in the pic. I grab all my screen shots from google, plenty on there, including the one I posted. Your right, I'm in no rush to change my costume and it makes no odds to me if the CRL doesn't get changed, being accused of "flaunting the clearance procedure" on my Garrison forum I do not appreciate... I WAS the GML, I TRAINED the current GML, Christ I cleared him! The GML has final say, end of story, if he chooses not to agree with the CRL, costume reference library, based on evidence given to him by the person looking for clearance, then its his call, end of. The CRL chat has 2 blurry screen grabs in it in SIX pages... yet there is now a "set in stone" crl? Again, the Pinned WIP CRL only contains two members costumes as reference, one with this image? Apparently mc is acceptable, personally I don't agree, there is not one image of a green based rounded cammo used, but not my point, apparently, whitening ect make it more acceptable, (see earlier post) but the CRL shows unmodified multicam material used....? Misleading for a new or prospective member? Jacket and pants or jumpsuit with the correct (or as close as possible camo.) The correct cammo? what's that then? this is the issue we had at the start? it doesn't exist, didn't then doesn't now, who defines what's "Close as possible" because it seems I don't agree, nor do others on what is tan or white, or what is a screen shot, and whats a pre production mythical image ony one person has access to... For some reason, the straps on the shins can be khaki OR white.... but the boots can not???? how does that work then? I do btw have the riding patch, but as the bund is low, the cod is hiding it! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilledmilk Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 "For some reason, the straps on the shins can be khaki OR white.... but the boots can not???? how does that work then?" I have no dog in this fight. im an up and comer, so i have zero say on CRL. i took the tan/white shin armor as choose either, based on what your end goal of armor was. do you want a trooper that has been on world for a few months and got shin deep into the much or do you want a more or less "garrison" kashyyyk trooper that keeps things mostly tidy and clean, ergo the tan or white. white would be super obvious and stand out like a sore thumb if its caked in mud. tan, less so. seeing as ya it may have been white but after mucking around washing what he could off when he could it got stained tan instead of white. again. i dont know wtf im talking about, im not a cleared trooper or GML. just what i took it to mean on the shin parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.