kay_dee

Hi, I did my best to use the "search" function on the forum and didn't find my answer. Can the experts who approve costumes for garrisons/the legion or write the CRL weight in if the new Black Series Scout helmet is approvable? (I have an armor kit I need to put together, but was hoping I could swap into the black series helmet).

Finally got my samples from Seattle fabrics. The Sateen Canvas did not have the sort of sheen I expected. And it only came in "natural" which is beige so the color is not correct. The white "Vat Dyed Duck" is OK. Its a tighter smoother weave than most canvas but has no sheen whatsoever. It would make a nice bund, but may not be what was used in the film. The 330D and 500D Cordura look promising in terms of level of sheen and weave, but they are not available in white through Seattle Fabrics. So, I'm going to keep hunting.

Thanks for the tab photo on the collar. I think I'll make mine like X-wing and TIE jump collar though... if that is OK. Or must it be straight edged rather than V? Or does nobody know so it does not matter? Now if I'm seeing a pocket detail on the movie screen grab (specifically the knee in the Blu Ray looks just like the knee on MOM jumpusuit), not just the MOM exhibit, will my costume be rejected by the 501st if I add the details I'm seeing? I know it will be rejected for Lancer and at this point, I may not care. I care more about sewing something as accurately as I can based on my research. If that does not match Lancer so be it, since that is just a fun status anyway. I still think based on my experience sewing jumpsuits and what the stitching looks like on a pocket vs a seam detail, that those are edges of pockets. And the same stitching is evident on the knee of the costume in the screen grab taken from the movie itself so it is at the very least a patch, if not what is called a "patch pocket" made of the same twill as the jumpsuit. Yes, we know for other costumes in the exhibit sometimes parts were mixed up (Com pads on TIE v X-Wing. And the armor on this biker scout has missing greeblies that are not seen on the bikers scouts on film. Maybe this was an extra's suit that just was not clearly filmed so we don't see this variation on camera). Thus far I'm only seeing speculation (not confirmation) that it was not an original jumpsuit on the MOM exhibit. I have not come across any quotes from LFL Archives curators stating the jumpsuit was a substitute - though there is a lot to read here and may have missed that? I remember all the speculation back when people did not want to believe it was Luke's real ROTJ cloak on display at FIDM (because people wanted to believe they were right that his cloak was "black" when it wasn't). So it goes both ways. Sometimes it is real and just didn't match what we originally thought, sometimes they are substitutes or mixed up parts. Oh well, it's looking like I can't start my jumpsuit until I get back from travels in June. I guess I'll check with my GML on the pocket issue too. Don't want to get turned down if they just are in no way accepted even if I can scramble together documentation from the DVD.

Oh, and here is that other image of the shoulder bell where you can sort of make out the edges of the elastic and something that is either just lint (lol!) or a bit of shiny snap connecting the elastic under the armor - maybe. I highlighted what might be a snap in green. The elastic in red.

Currently, I still stand by my educated guess that it's closer to 1/2" on the lower part of the bell (agree now that probably not as narrow as 1/4"). I'm sort of scaling off of the ribs on the sleeve. If we are to say the bicep armor (not bell, the armor below the bell) elastic is 1 3/8 - 1.5" then scale things off of that - the ribs on the shirt are visibly narrower than the bicep armor elastic (so in a range between 1"-1.25" space between quilted ribs). The elastic on the shoulder bell bicep is narrower than those sleeve ribs to my eye. This is presuming that the 1.5" elastic is correct for the biceps (I almost think at times it looks wider than that when comparing to the 1.5" chest webbing) I often use photoshop's ruler tool and easy algebra to aid scaling parts of my costumes. When looking at the black and white photo and doing the basic scaling math: 1.5 (bicep armor elastic) x .285(ruler tool bell elastic) divided by .941 (ruler tool bicep armor elastic) = .45" shoulder bell elastic around bicep. I did the math using the other presumed 1.375" bicep armor elastic size which will give you a smaller number just because, you are starting with a smaller number. 1.375 x .285 (ruler tool bell elastic) divided by .941 (ruler tool bicep armor elastic) = .41" Seems either way you would round up to 1/2" for the bell elastic. The screen grabs are not as clear, but at least the elastic is up around the arm. So I gave the math a try there too. 1.5" (known bicep armor elastic) x .216 (ruler tool bell elastic) divided by .898 (ruler tool bicep elastic) = .36" - that puts it between .25 and .5" elastic on the bells - but the screen grabs are less crisp and the elastic is not straight on so I could see scaling the .36" up to .5" That's what math and my eyes are telling me anyway. I know, there are not many good photos to go on anyway. And call me a controversial elastic obsessed crazy woman - but the knee armor actually looks to me like it has something closer to 1/2 - 3/4" elastic running through the lower part of the armor slot. No matter how tightly I pull on 1" elastic going through that notch, it does not look that narrow and ends up taking up the entire slot. Yeah, I bought a lot of elastic yesterday and have been comparing it to the real photos when I put it through my armor.

There is one photo from the exhibit I had not posted where you can sort of make out a snap/stud near the bottom of the bell where the thin bicep elastic attaches. (I'll see if I can post it tonight) Clearly in the pics I see anyway, the bicep elastic is far narrower than the ivory side chest armor. By leaps and bounds as I highlighted the black bicep shoulder bell elastic in red. I agree it looks perhaps rolled on the third photo. And the top of the bell - I'm guessing just go with the instructions in my MC kit since so far I find no photos specifying widths or method of attachment near the top of the bell, other than elastic bridges between the top of the bell and the center of the chest armor shoulders.

I understand that, I've worked on CRL (standards) at the Rebel Legion. It's just since I'm working on the build now and I always study photos first hand before I dive in - these questions are coming up for me and figured this was the place to ask and talk about it since I have decisions to make As for the vest, I can see why members who didn't have it didn't want it added as another requirement since for years nobody knew it was there, but it would be unfair to deny people from adding it and gaining 501st acceptance when it's clearly what is part of the costume. (I guess that is where levels come in. Most people never missed the vest so the scout is very troopable without it, but others who know it is there should be encouraged in some way to add it).

6.3mm (1/4") around the bicep? Or is this to attach the bell to the chest armor at the shoulder? (had questions about both). Photos of biker scout do seem like it should be between 1/4" - 1/2" at most around the bicep anyway. I know lancer says much wider - but part of me just wants to say I don't agree with that and though I'd like lancer status for all the work... my eyes say 1 3/4" is far too wide for the bell.

I have a few shoulder bell elastic questions and some questions about where the lancer specs come from. 1) Is it permitted to have elastic going from the center top of the bell bridging between the shoulder of the chest armor to attach it at the shoulder? I don't see it mentioned in the CRL. If so, how wide should it be? Or does it not matter, so that is why it is not mentioned because nobody knows? 2) I'm curios how you all arrived at 1 3/8" for the shoulder bell bicep attachment? I know it's pretty evident it is roughly that wide for the bicep armor itself, but I am having trouble finding evidence that the shoulder bell elastic is that wide. You'd see something really wide along the quilted sleeve if that were the case. In fact, all my preliminary photo research points to the shoulder bell elastic which wraps around the upper part of the bicep to be closer to 1/2" or so. Very narrow. Here are some caps from the film where to me, it looks like it is narrow bicep elastic which digs into the quilted vest sleeve. And this MOM photo, it seems to me the elastic may have become loose with age, or just was not slid up onto the arm properly, so it is caught dropping down below the sleeve under the bicep armor. It seems like it is thin, I don't know that you'd get this effect with 1 3/8" wide elastic.

As for the black bicep elastic needing to be 1 3/8 v 1.5 - come on, really? Is anyone going to notice the difference of 1/8"? Unless someone had their hands on an archives costume and confirmed beyond shadow of a doubt it is 1 3/8" for the bicep (did I miss a thread?) then I'd *think* that for lancer it could be stated "1 3/8" or 1.5" ? Are we taking rulers to all our elastic for submission photos?

I know I'm new, but I agree. The side chest strapping just looks way too close to the drop box webbing in size. Here is the MOM photo: And I know there is nothing that says the MC armor is proper scale, but here is 1.5 webbing through my MC armor. I think 1.75 woulld look off and too wide for the MC armor so IMO, for overall effect, I think if someone owns MC armor the 1.5 webbing is most suited to it. I'd be curious to see what 1.75 looks like in some of the other armor people own (like SC) to see how it looks scale wise compared next to the MOM images. I could see saying, depending on your armor make, either 1.5" or 1.75" is appropriate.

I also worked on one bolt cover today, I am skipping cutting recessed areas into my visor for the bolts. My experimentation on plastic did not go smoothly enough for me to feel confident cutting up my helmet. I used this idea from Mr.Bojangles: http://forum.bikersc...ts&fromsearch=1 I'm waiting to glue it in with epoxy until my helmet is painted so I can double check everything before assembling in case I need to tweak the alignment at all.

I did a bit of helmet prep today. I followed Centuri's lead and modified my chin cup to match the specs of the screen used helmet as closely as possible (Centuri's Thread: http://forum.bikersc...?showtopic=9910 ). I really needed to because the cup that came with my helmet was too big for my chin! I'm not sure if the latest run of MLC 3 helmets has a revised chin cup or not. My helmet was purchased originally in 2013. Here is my process: If you want to skip making your own cutting template, you can download mine and print it (72dpi). Do not print it directly from the browser window, it will print too small. (the ruler is in inches) http://kay-dee.net/c...t/chin-temp.jpg You'll need to trace over it with tracing paper though so you can line up the center marks on your own chin cup before tracing onto the cup itself. 1) Sketched in pencil lines after studying dimensions on real chin cup seen here http://forum.bikersc...llery&album=145 I measured and marked the center line first actually (this is key to getting a balanced re-cut, do it carefully and check it several times) 2) I then placed tracing paper over the cup and traced my lines, including the center line and the elastic notches (the center line looks off because I forgot to photograph it while working on it. I quickly threw the tracing paper back on to sort of show the process). 3) I pulled off the tracing paper and folded it over on the center line in order to true up the pattern and make it symmetrical Then cut it out while folded: 4) repeated the same process for the other section of the chin 5) Then erased the original rough sketch, keeping the center lines in tact (you need this to line up your final symmetrical pattern) 6) tape your patten back on, lining up carefully with your center marks. Then trace around it. 7) Finished cut lines: 8) Now dremel, and then then file down using a large flat file to get the sides straight and flat. 9) I also cleaned up the slots with some smaller round and flat files 10) Done!

Hi Spookymufu - I got my helmet second hand off a 501st member who decided not to do their scout build. So I didn't order from MC or MLC directly. Sorry I'm of no help there.

Thanks Chex - good to know it just has to appear like a 3M bolt - and I am guessing I don't have to make the recessed appearance for the bolt the way some with fiber glass helmets have done (I'm not that steady with a dremel, don't want to risk ruining my helmet visor). It will be fine resting on top of the visor, correct? My bucket came primed so I'm just hoping someone will be able to tell me what with so I can make sure paints don't have compatibility issues.

I received my unpainted MLC helmet yesterday, and want to make sure I'm prepping it properly and hopefully, getting it up to Lancer approval specs. My first questions are about the 3M bolts. 1) I see the photo in the lancer requirements actually shows the inner knobs. Would the lancer approval team really be checking the inside of the helmet for this? I'm leaning toward not using those black flower knobs because the wing nut that came with my helmet just seems much more solid. 2) Next, I'm wondering if it is necessary for the entire 3M (or equivalent looking cover) to be recessed into the helmet for Lancer approval. Bravo to Centuri for dremelling out a recess http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=9910&st=0 - but I am personally terrified of ruining my helmet if I slip, go to far, etc. So is it fine for Lancer to allow the bolt cover bit to rest on top of the helmet? 3) I see some people have dremelled out a wider hole in the visor in order to accommodate the fat square part of the 3M bolt , basically utilizing the entire plastic bolt to hold the helmet together. I'm starting to lean against this. The 3M bolt is about 1/2" shorter than the metal bolts that came with the helmet, and I read that people who did use the 3M bolt had to machine a special longer nut just to make the connection work inside the helmet. I don't know, this just seems risky to me to have so little of the threaded bolt to work with once it goes into the helmet. I'm thinking of taking the Mr.Bojangles approach instead and just cutting up the 3M bolt in order to glue that cover on my metal bolt. http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=7383&hl=%2Bhelmet+%2Bbolts&fromsearch=1 Visor Adjustment So, when I try to open up my visor it really does not open very far, and parts of it are rubbing primer paint off of the main part of the helmet as it swings up. Have people found they needed to file and reshape parts of the visor so they don't rub against the helmet when it's opened up? (Not sure if I should risk this, or just know that I shouldn't be opening my helmet if I don't want my final paint job scratched up. Primer I've tried to e-mail Far Away Creations to ask what primer has been used on the helmet. I want to make sure there are not any compatibility issues. But if someone here knows off hand what they used that would be helpful. Nose Vent decal So, I see there are real vents cut above the snout on the MC helmet, but the film used helmets have decals (and I did get decals with my kit). I'm assuming that the decal just has to go over the cut vents and cover them up?

I know this thread is a year old - but my initial reactions looking at the MOM exhibit photos were: a) The Cummerbund is A more tightly woven fabric than the pouches (high res shots show the canvas weave of the pouch pretty well, but no weave pattern is detected on the cummerbund). b ) The cummerbund has very slight sheen. So then my mind goes to what fabrics are known to photograph this way and could have possibly been used. 1) If the cummerbund is cotton as was reported by LFL archivists and a fan who visited the archives (yeah, found that old thread) - the cotton on the bund could be a polished cotton of some sort. Most cotton sateens are thin, but that's not to say they couldn't have found something more upholstery or outdoor weight with a polished finish and finer weave to it. 2) Knowing the x-wing flak vests are made of a synthetic (many use nylon) it crossed my mind that that a similar Nylon may have been used on the bund. So, my first instinct after taking all this varying information in was to check my favorite online source for outdoor fabrics. I'll be ordering a swatch of this: http://www.seattlefa...com/cotton.html Sateen This 10oz natural untreated 100% cotton canvas is woven with a satin weave which gives a nice smooth finish. Perfect for slipcovers, futons, roman shades and other uses. Width: 60" $7.99/yd Natural untreated cotton canvas will shrink 10-15% and 10 oz Vat Dyed Duck A 10 oz, 100% cotton vat dyed duck that has been treated for water and mildew resistance. With a smooth finish, it is tightly woven canvas, with a nice look. This cotton canvas is stabilized, but it may shrink slightly. I'll post the swatches when I get them!

I've been reading through the forums and the CRL for the past week now, as I purchased a MC kit last week + MLC v3 helmet which arrived today (Yay! - it was sold off on 501st forum so I did not have to wait for months.) I have been sewing and researching Star Wars costumes for years, and I've done my best to read through many pages of posts here to get up to speed on sewing my own parts - but I may be missing things and will have questions along the way. The first thing I noticed when studying MOM pictures on my own were the dreaded mystery "pockets (?)" which I was hoping I'd find some discussion of here since the CRL states no visible pockets. I was confused, and found this thread today. http://forum.bikersc...opic=7912&st=20 Seems it was a point of contention between a member who has been to the archives and seen a screen used suit, reporting there were no pockets versus some of the photographic evidence we see in screen caps and exhibit pics? And although I have not studied the blu ray yet, I found it interesting that this screen grab shows the knee detail/possible pocket: http://s274.photobuc...eEDIT3.jpg.html On one hand it would be easy to follow the CRL and go for lancer, and just not worry about any of these pocket like details on my suit (less to sew = faster I'm done!) But the accuracy freak in me wants to add these sort of patch pocket details we see hints of under the armor. Q: Would it be permitted (for either 501st approval or lancer) to add top leg pockets similar to the top pockets on a TIE jumpsuit (the ones just under the waist band, near the crotch, not the flap pockets on the thigh) http://kay-dee.net/c...t/jumpsuit2.jpg And what about improvising a small pocket or rectangular patch near the knee, as you can kind of make out the top of something like that here under the knee plate: http://outpost42.dr-...=898&fullsize=1 and here: http://s274.photobuc...eEDIT3.jpg.html ? Q: As for the collar, should it be a mandarin like the X-wing jump suits which has sort of a sideways V shape to the edge of the tab? I read about Esprit Race suits but can't find a photo of one to save my life. So I'm not sure at all what is meant by "an enclosing strap to keep the neck concealed." Can anyone show me a photo of what that is? I'm only familiar with the X-wing and TIE jump suit which is a straight forward mandarin collar that overlaps itself. Thanks!