Cummerbund vertical stitching

[Arnie]

Agree completely!

[lonewolf]

I have been looking for any evidence that the present CRL is correct, nothing.

This pic from a few years back almost proves the Blu ray cummerbund is not anything new, this looks like the exact same suit, holster , chest breakage etc.

 

 

Screen used I think. Although not in a screencap, the helmet is the SW in Concert one and it was in the movie for certain.

[Arnie]

Well, all I see is evidence that the CRL is wrong, and nothing that states the CRL is right...

[4505Marcel]

The only evidence is a screen grab at the end of the day, someone PLEASE post some up for us so we can nail this

[lonewolf]

I have Return of the Jedi movie still book ISBN 1 85227 729 7, 1999 , it is clearly seen in here.The scene where Han sneaks up on the Biker Scout.

 

I will show the pic if I can copy it.

[lonewolf]

After a load of excellent reference shots I have the additional pictures to allow the CRL to be upgraded,

taken directly from the book by Blackberry phone.

 

 

[4505Marcel]

Yep does look like 6, lets see what other screen grabs we can come up with.

[lonewolf]

Yep does look like 6, lets see what other screen grabs we can come up with.

Ha ha, so now I find a screencap as you asked, it is still not enough,you want more screen grabs! There is no evidence to prove the current standards but you still want to keep it.

Mate, think about the guys who want accuracy in their costumes.

 

So does this mean that new guys coming in will be continuing to make their cummerbunds incorrectly?

 

All I can do is advise them that the present CRL is inaccurate.

 

It will mean you have one less stitch line to sew on the cummerbunds you sell,

[4505Marcel]

You seem abit too quick to have a pop John, thats not what I was suggesting at all and I have agreed it looks like 6. I mearly said lets see what other grabs we can get, preferably clearer, it would be nice to have a blue ray screen grab rather than a poor phone picture for CRL photos.

 

Either way im not going to jump and change the CRL straight away, when I did this last time I got a lot of flak for it, we need to let everyone have a vote on it and go from there and have a time scale for the change. Im already getting pm's from worried troopers who a near to getting a 501st clearance and fear they will now have to change again at the last minute for clearance, and rightly so after reading this.

 

And I do think about the guys who want accuracy, I changed the two main things in the CRL this year the vest and thigh patches and a lot of troopers hated that, and that was far more important than one less stitch line I recon. The legion asked that I did not change the standard CRL too much so I may well just add this to the lancer one, but we can see what everyone wants to do.

[automaton]

Hey Marcel,

 

Maybe you can do something like this. If it is decided that the CRL needs to change, anyone who has already made their bund following the old CRL but hasn't yet been cleared can send you a picture of it as proof, and you can grandfather them in under the old CRL. That way no one has to go back and fix or make a new bund to get clearance unless they really want to. I know when I was building my suit I got really frustrated as things were changing because it felt like I was trying to hit a moving target. This way it can be avoided.

 

Just a thought.

[4505Marcel]

Yes thats certainly one way around it bro

[lonewolf]

If you think I was having a pesonal pop at you Marcel I am sorry for that. Your idea of some sort of vote on accuracy is silly however, you asked for a screencap, I gave you one, I cannot change the standards but I can try to help guys make educated decisions. To refuse to see the evidence and keep the standards with no evidence doesn't make any sense to me .

 

The guys who are in the middle of their costume build may have already bought an inaccurate cummerbund or made one to comply with the CRL but I am concerned about the guys who are coming to this site tomorrow and next week looking for some accurate info.

It seems pretty easy to me to add another line to the Lancer CRL , I had 6 , I am making a new cummerbund, I accept we got it wrong on this. Now what is the correct way to show the other inaccuracies in the CRL without going through this again?

[Arnie]

What I can see from the 501st CRL, there are no level 2 or 3 for the biker scout. I know Lancer exist, but its not on the main CRL.

 

I can understand why you wont change it straight away, and will let people get the time to argue against this, if they can indeed find anything to prove it wrong. Hell I was one of the people who might have flamed you a bit when the TD greeblie thing came up.

 

But if you worry about those caught mid build, just change it to 6-7 stiches for base acceptance, and make level 2 or 3, what ever Lancer would be, with 6 stiches.

As it is right now 6 stiches wont be accepted by the CRL.

 

But why people want to keep 7 stiches on their cummerbund is hard for me to understand. Its an extremely easy fix if you know someone with a sewing machine, and takes an hour max to fix and no extra cost what so ever.

 

But I'm glad your taking this in to consideration Marcel. At the start it sounded a bit like you just didtn want it to change at all hehe

[4505Marcel]

Your idea of some sort of vote on accuracy is silly however, you asked for a screencap, I gave you one, I cannot change the standards but I can try to help guys make educated decisions. To refuse to see the evidence and keep the standards with no evidence doesn't make any sense to me .

 

Once again I havent refused anything John, as I said above it does look like 6 but we need to be carefull how we change things again.

I have done more for the CRL's than any previous DL trying to better the scout for the 501st legion and its troopers. Ive not sat back and done nothing, wether you like me or not you cannot deny what I have done to better the scout putting my neck on the line.

 

The reason I said about a vote is because this is what the forums members asked for so not silly at all, we have to be diplomatic on something as trivial as a stitch line, with a major change like the vest and thigh patches that was a no brainer as they are CLEARLY on screen.

 

I do not feel a 6 or 7 stitch is acceptable thing in the CRL is right, we need to nail it and have only one so we are the same. Im not against any changes to better us Morten, I think that is obvious by what I have pushed to date but only with concrete evidence other wise we are just doing things on a whim. We have to remember this forum contains all kinds of troopers and nut just accuracy nuts so it has to be fair to everyone. The lancer programme is for the accuracy guys with that we can do what we like as its a choice to go for it or not.

 

That being said, as stated it costs nothing more to change the number of stitches so happy to change that one, but I do want to see clearer pictures so I can use them, but it will go to a vote after we have discussed this. Besides its less work for me and the crazy amounts of bunds I make lol.

[Arnie]

Well said

[Chex]

I'll talk to my friend tonight about trying to get some better pics. He knows people I think, or he may be able to pull some frames from the blu-rays.

[4505Marcel]

Thanks Mike

[Boba Leo]

I'll talk to my friend tonight about trying to get some better pics. He knows people I think, or he may be able to pull some frames from the blu-rays.

 

Good news Mike, Thanks!!!!!!

 

Leo

[Pandatrooper]

Any updates on this subject or new screens? I'm planning to sew my Lancer spec cummerbund this week and I'd like to get it done right the first time. Thanks!

[Southscout]

I tried myself to get some good shots with a camera of the Blu-ray but sadly no good picture came out (the movie is too grainy...). But to me it looked like 6 line of stitches and 5 raised areas when looking at it in slow-motion (the eye is better with moving images). Maybe if we get a good screenshot we can have some fancy image processing done on it to enhance the contours etc.

 

Edit: one thing I did notice, and which is also visible in the picture from LW is that if we look down from the center of the chest armor, there are 3 clearly visible raised areas, with the rightmost one being straight below the center of the armor. This would suggest that there 5 raised areas, two on each side of the center area. This I also thought I saw a lot on the bluray, but it was not possible to clearly see all 5 (or 7).

 

I did however get a good picture of the firing biker scout, so I made me a new profile photo

[lonewolf]

Regarding the number of stitch lines you guys can see or not see, as wise old Ben Kenobi once said,

 

"You must do what you feel is right, of course.."

[4505Marcel]

Its a waste of time trying to take photos of the screen for the quality, best bet is to run it through a laptop or pc and do a screen grab if its capapble of running blue rays that should do the trick

[Arnie]

Or maybe the top people here on BSN should take a look at the movie and count for themself, how many stripes they see, instead of waiting/hoping for some random dude to take a nice looking picture

[4505Marcel]

I dont have the blue rays, and we cant discuss unless we can all see what were discussing bud

 

Which is why we need it posted, plus it would be nice to have a clear shot for the archives for future reference.

[TB-7076]

Here is what I think.

 

While the argument is valid that exhibit and promotion pieces do have errors in display and may feature altered parts/repairs as well as ill compositions most of what we see are the actual suits we know from the movies. This is at least the case for stormtroopers be it snow-, scout or stormtrooper.

A cross check through all pictures available will verify this claim. Fact is not all of the people in this hobby are capable to evaluate and match all references available and are often overwhelmed by resources i.e. transfromation of certain objects in different angles etc. That is why we often have different interpretations of one and the same thing.

 

Exhibit and production photos are often a better source than screenshots. At least for the scout this is very true as most shots are motion shots and with very high contrast and lighting as well as additinal color filters applied to achieve certain moods. This makes it very difficult to mathc colours -> see scout pouches color discussion as well as AT-ST driver helmet color discussion just to name two related issues to one and the same series of sequences within ROTJ.

However they're good to cross check with the other resources we got. With some logic things explain themself and all production pcitures as well as prototypes are still better than action or collector figures!! The latter can be used but always with caution - a lot of errors of our hobbies are directly referred to action figures used as reference without checking the original. I know that a decade ago we had not that much references we got today and so Kenner/HASBRO were used as a substitute but we're in 2012 now .

 

 

So long story short and straight to my point:

 

It is obvious that the major parts of the Scout are the same throughout all references.

Of course we have some prototype features inconsistent with the on screen results. As far as I can tell these are limited to:

 

A - prepro tan suede riding patches as

B - prepro strapped boot holster

C - prepro thigh armor (resembling Jango style -> also seen on concept sketch of the scout)

D - prepro detailed utillity belt

 

this is why all these features were tested

 

Btw. most of these observations are not new even though a newer source revealed lately revived the discussion about it. I mean the front test fit shot that was brought up a few weeks ago. They're related to a much older reference form the illustrated series (courtsey to Frank for providing the following scan to me a few years ago). I think most of you already know this one but I post it to complete the reference posted earlier.

 

 

 

 

Now the only strange thing as John and others as well already pointed out remains the red button on the torister panel of the MOM exhibit peace.

I think we can regard this as a post movie addon without any deeper meaning or consequence for us costumers.

 

 

But all the other parts of the costumes we see in productions shots especially the manequin in the bonus material of the blu rays appear to me as actual movie accurate. All other resources show the same features and it is weathered which allows for the conclusion it was at least meant for the set and was part of the latest parts as the used look scout was probably the last shots of the costumes with all clean scouts being modified to appear battle weary. I doubt there were two sets otherwise we had clean scout shots from post-movie sources.

So following that logic the BR manequin shows parts of the actual scout costume as it appeared on screen.

 

I don't know why there are doubts? Unfortunately the MOM shots can't support the claim as that area is almost covered and wrinkled in a way you cannot tell for sure. However both sources show the same features except for the lack of details on the detonator on then MOM manequin.

But seriously there is a visible continuity throughout al resources and people still defend ground where there is nothing to defend.

 

Just my observation.

 

I still can't understand why people (and in this particular discussion John) are still argumenting for a version with ribbed stormtrooper like neck seals.

It is something that would be visible due to the fact that a neckseal produces a thick neck which would deny the sleek look of the scouts.

I see no evidence for such item in any screenshots - only one where the turtle neck or balaclava produces some wrinkels that may appear as such.