Basic bikerscout CRL update

[batninja]

I had to dig througha few threads to locate these, as I'm not finding the Gallery very user-friendly (maybe it's just me), but here are two diagrams I've found for the thigh suede patterns:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boba Leo]

Perfect !!!!!!! I used the same templates !!!!!!!!!!

 

Leo

[Griffin-X]

No doubt, great templates.

 

Hey...we're all Pathfinders, or upcoming Pathfinders here and on the same team. Marcel is doing the job he was elected to do and giving us updates and information relative to the costume we all love. I am not a Lancer, yet, but can tell you the changes to the CRL bring us closer to Lancer - but not 100% lined up to Lancer standards (boot soles, 2nd knee strap, box strapping, helmet upgrades, etc). To be a Lancer (IMHO), means following "as close as possible" to the onscreen Imperial Scout Troopers (top to bottom). I hope to be there one day. My 2 cents...

[Boba Leo]

No doubt, great templates.

 

Hey...we're all Pathfinders, or upcoming Pathfinders here and on the same team. Marcel is doing the job he was elected to do and giving us updates and information relative to the costume we all love. I am not a Lancer, yet, but can tell you the changes to the CRL bring us closer to Lancer - but not 100% lined up to Lancer standards (boot soles, 2nd knee strap, box strapping, helmet upgrades, etc). To be a Lancer (IMHO), means following "as close as possible" to the onscreen Imperial Scout Troopers (top to bottom). I hope to be there one day. My 2 cents...

 

It's true!! Wise words, Jim

 

Leo

[Fool]

The changes are disappointing to me (in the midle of a build). I am going for lancer, but I really wanted to get my pathfinder status first, and get out there trooping. This does set that back a few months. The new things added are not (IMHO) iconic parts of the costume at all.

 

Just my 3 cents (darn inflation)

 

I guess I also disagree with the grandfather clause also If we all want to take pride in our costumes, then we ALL should, and not just the up and comming. How many pathfinders would that trim from the ranks?

[4505Marcel]

Grandfather rule is not mine mate, but of the legion. But as i said i would like to see all scouts this way but no hand can be forced. Just as previous lancers will keep their status after the last amendments, but would hope in terms of accuracy they will follow suit. The suit as a whole is what makes it iconic not the parts that have been added, its ALL the parts that come together to make the scout.

[Pandatrooper]

So just to clarify, The way it stands, there is no more Pathfinder, only 501st and Lancer, correct?

 

I think the changes are for the better, but I for one would have appreciated a heads up that this was coming (eg: "Hey scouts, in 2 months we are going to update the CRL, and you need the following costume updates if you are applying" kind of thing).

 

For people part of the way there or a limited budget, it's going to throw them off track. I am one of them. I pretty much finished tailoring my suit a while ago, and now I have to rip out the seams and re-do it to add the suede which I wasn't intending on doing. I know one young trooper locally who was given a costume budget as a gift, and some of these changes might be harder for him.

 

To clarify, this change is a bit different from the FISD or MEPD approach. There are several different levels of Stormtroopers (some easier / more cost effective all the way to screen accurate). For a typical ANH stunt, there's 501st standard, EIB (Expert Infantry) and Centurion (uber screen accurate).

 

Similar with MEPD, there's a 501st sandtrooper, MEPD Deplyed and MEPD SWAT (replication of an actual character in ANH). At least with 3 varieties, it gives people different cost and availability options. This is an example of the guides I created to break down the individual troopers by pauldron color, which makes it much easier to replicate.

 

http://forum.mepd.net/index.php?showforum=3

 

I agree with you in that the lowest standard for a biker scout should be improved, I guess it was more the way it's been communicated. Some people like to include in the discussion and prepare people for the change.

 

If I can make a suggestion, I would suggest updating the Biker Scout CRL with color coded sections like the FISD does for their CRL. This makes it easier for people to understand the differences between 501st and Lancer.

http://www.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TK_anh_stunt

 

I would also suggest at least a section on the forum dedicated to the changes required, with links to threads or images. The thing is, even if we don't know "exactly" what something looks like underneath, at least offer an example of something for us to follow as a "best guess", until new discoveries are made.

 

Marcel, I appreciate your work and efforts in making this happen for the benefit of the detachment and its members. I hope you take this feedback constructively and not in a negative way, that's not how it's intended. If you need assistance, I am more than happy to help with visuals if you need them.

 

Terry

[4505Marcel]

Thank you for your reply, we have only amended the vest, thigh/crotch patches, straps and greeblies for basic clearance. All of which can be seen in the visual CRL live now on the main 501st site.

I do however like the different colour sections on the basic CRL showing what is then required for lancer, thats a good one and will look into it. In my eyes if a trooper feels down the line they want to become lancer, then just build off the lancer CRL from the start. If not just follow the standard CRL, the basics requirments being what it is now will also be easy to go lancer with minimal costs.

Yes there is still a need for 501st, pathfinder and lancer, many troopers get cleared as scout and never log onto the BSN, they are 501st scouts. Once a scout signs up here with a 501st clearance they then become pathfinder, if they then want to do the now minor changes to become lancer then alls good.

 

Unfortunaley there would never be a good time to change the CRL, there will always be someone mid build. If I said the CRL is going to change in two months, do you really feel troopers are going to leave their builds two months to see what happens I doubt it and it wouldnt be fair to say dont start your builds yet we need to change things.

I stand by what we have agreed the basic scout needs and have changed it to, this needed doing along time ago.

 

At the end of the day, I know of no other 501st costume that has this many obvious screen seen parts missing in the CRL, its not right not to include them in the basic CRL.

[batninja]

Forgive a relatively 'newbie' question, but are there currently THREE sets of requirements? 501st, Pathfinder, then Lancer? I understand 501st gets you approved for the Legion, and Lancer is the 'best of the best' on this site, but what are the Pathfinder requirements, if any?

[mxpxrobbie]

Forgive a relatively 'newbie' question, but are there currently THREE sets of requirements? 501st, Pathfinder, then Lancer? I understand 501st gets you approved for the Legion, and Lancer is the 'best of the best' on this site, but what are the Pathfinder requirements, if any?

 

Seems to me like 'Pathfinder' is just a member of the detachment. 501st = Pathfinder, once you sign up on these boards.

[Griffin-X]

An approved 501st Imperial Scout Trooper (Biker Scout) is a Pathfinder. Think of "Lancer" like a specialist rank, or something within the Pathfinder detachment. I hope that makes sense.

[batninja]

Okay, that kinda makes sense now...

[Cyber Scout]

Just reading the thread and as Marcel has seid there would have been no "right" time to change the C.R.L. We are sorry to those who are in mid build at the mo but this needed to be approched at some point to keep up with other costumes within the Legion, As an original trilogy costume it should be given the respect it so righty deserves, the items added are main parts of the costume wich are needed for the overall look, The thigh straps and patch are as much part of the scout basic armour as the thigh of a T.K, I can totally see the point of the the guys new to the scout and why should we have them and having extra cost to the build but a basic scout even with the new C.R.L is a much cheaper costume than others like the T.K. or T.D. This was not updated to make things harder or to upset people it was done so all you guys are looking good,

[TB-0773]

I need to know, what is this TD greeble?? It is the only detail... without detail, could you please clarify. Are these the bolts for the helmet visor?

[Pandatrooper]

Its the newly "discovered" greeblie that goes on the back of the thermal detonator on the belt.

[4505Marcel]

Yup as said just a thermal detonator greeblie, these are £2.50 on Ebay so soo cheap we thought that it should be included in the basics. Id say at that price its cheaper than trying to make one or buying something square to add on like we used to do before we knew what it was. TKs must have the right TD greeblie so its the same here now we know what it is thanks to the blue ray release.

[Chef]

Come on guys.... don't feel hard done to.

 

The previous costume standards for Scouts were rubbish. Let's be honest here.

The original CRL was missing so many bits from the screen used costume that it was criminal.

 

The fact that there were integral parts to the costume too, just made this worse.

 

It'd be like clearing a TK without the themal det or drop boxes attached to the belt.

 

It just wouldn't be done.

 

 

So rather than feeling like the fence has been put up around you, you should all be feeling like someone left the stable door open in the first place!

 

Plus it's not like they are difficult bits to achieve either.

The materials required are cheap..... Much cheaper than Marcel estimates.

 

The flak vest can be made with an old T-shirt and a bit of padding. Faux Suede is cheap from eBay (£3.50 for a metre, which plenty), elastic is even cheaper. The greeblie will cost you £2.50.

Then there is just time and patience (possibly the rarest commodities).

 

Sewing the bits in doesn't require the total destruction of your suit. The flap is one stitch line across the back, which you can do by unzipping the front. The crotch bit, granted is a bit of an arse, but if you've got a decent machine (one that does legs, unlike mine) then it's a doddle, and if you're sewing by hand, then it matters not anyway! The straps get put in at the same time.

 

Making the parts will add about an extra 2 days onto your build.....

WOW.... A whole weekend!

 

 

 

As for being warned. Well. You now know. It has already been pointed out that you DON'T need to comply with the updates, you can grandfather over your current cleared costume (personally, I don't agree. But hey, I don't make the rules), but if you DO want to, then you are under no time pressure to complete it.

If you're mid build, then really it's not that much of a drama.

It's not like you've got to chop up bits of armour that will no longer fit.

 

 

 

So there is no need to go chewing Marcel out about all this. The point remains that they SHOULD have been included in the first place. This has been too long in coming if you ask me.

 

I've got them, have done from the start. I've never had any intention of going Lancer........ (that's another story).

 

I'm going SCREEN ACCURATE.

[Smiling Fox]

Even though I am new here, I have been in uniform for more than 22 years. I have to say that I agree with this. These are basic items that this costume should have. I have been waiting on my armor to arrive from KS for a while now and have taken that time to get everything in order that I can. Including sewing the patches on my flight suit and beginning my vest. I have no interest in going Lancer but I that is only because I think nylon straps and non carved boot soles look fine. And my only argument there is that uniform items evolve and change, even in the Empire (hence different looks of tk's for different movies) and I have seen a lot of small differences over the years in uniforms that were still acceptable. But I will say that I don't think anyone would go out without protective gear such as a flak vest in combat (too many pesky rebels out there for that). So why not make sure it is part of your costume? It does look good and I imagine helps with the shoulder bells fitting properly for those of us who are smaller in stature.

 

Anyway, sorry for the rambling but this is just my opinion and I say well done.

[rdhawk]

If the "basic" CRL is only $50 less than Lancer, just make Lancer what it takes to be a TB in the Legion, instead of "giving the choice".

 

I'm so glad my crewman got me my TKID.

[Arnie]

What about the MOTM ??? Is this to be considered incorrect? I surely dont see the option to replicate that any where, even though its from the LFL arhcives.

[Chef]

MotM has been considered incorrect since forever!

 

You only have to look at the lack of greeblies to work that out.

 

So much so that I try not to use it as reference unless I really have to.

 

Even the new 'walk-around' on the BluRay is not correct. Yes it has given us a few pointers and opened up a few new details to help us improve the costume, but that should not be used as a Canon reference to the overall look!

 

The only thing you should consider to be a Canon reference are those bits you see between when Darth Vader goes to inspect the 2nd Death Star and when he's burned on the Funeral Pyre.

 

If the "basic" CRL is only $50 less than Lancer, just make Lancer what it takes to be a TB in the Legion, instead of "giving the choice"

 

It's not a question of cost.... it's a question of detail/fit/finish.

 

The difference in cost between cleared, EIB or Centurion is probably only a few quid in real terms.it's just all the lumps, bumps and other TK related doohickeys that set them apart.

 

So for the Scout, this is about pouches being set correctly, drop boxes not hanging around your @rse, suit not being like a circus tent, using the correct materials etc.

 

Some people don't want the hassle of going to this much detail, and that's fine. That's why the choice exists.

 

If you start down the line of, "well.... it doesn't matter that, that bit wasn't used in the film..."

You end up like this guy....

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/costume-and-armour-/270890138749?pt=UK_Collectables_SciFi_fantasyCollectables_EH&hash=item3f124f7c7d#ht_500wt_1363

 

 

 

So in terms of cost... yes, it's not much different. But that's not the point.

 

I always advise people to start their build with the screen accuracy/ top level in mind. It's only a question of sourcing natural cloth instead of nylon webbing etc. So it really doesn't make much of a difference in terms of cost and time, but the end result is much much better.

 

How's this for a question...

 

Who would be up in arms if they made the Lancer requirements much more difficult??

There is (in my opinion) still so much that needs addressing with this.

 

So just remember.... over here in the UK petrol (gasoline) is the equivalent of $9.32 a gallon.

My point is.... Consider yourselves lucky. Things can always get worse.

[4505Marcel]

Also there is other things to consider, pistols are optional for 501st due to laws in certain countries, but are needed for lancer. we also require real suede on a flight suit for lancer now, but dur to some not liking to use real skin on their suits its an option for 501st things like that, but Chef has basically covered evrything above

[rdhawk]

It's not a question of cost.... it's a question of detail/fit/finish.

 

The difference in cost between cleared, EIB or Centurion is probably only a few quid in real terms.it's just all the lumps, bumps and other TK related doohickeys that set them apart.

 

So for the Scout, this is about pouches being set correctly, drop boxes not hanging around your @rse, suit not being like a circus tent, using the correct materials etc.

 

Some people don't want the hassle of going to this much detail, and that's fine. That's why the choice exists.

 

You're part of the UK garrison, so I know the stuff from you guys is always impeccable, but here in KY and TN, we make out costumes to fit us. I know pictures in the members gallery on the main 501st website might not currently reflect that, but you have to look at the age of those pics sometimes. So I don't know where you see an epidemic of ill-fitted costumes, but those should be taken to GML's anyways, as the costumes should fit the wearer.

 

 

I always advise people to start their build with the screen accuracy/ top level in mind. It's only a question of sourcing natural cloth instead of nylon webbing etc. So it really doesn't make much of a difference in terms of cost and time, but the end result is much much better.

 

How's this for a question...

 

Who would be up in arms if they made the Lancer requirements much more difficult??

There is (in my opinion) still so much that needs addressing with this.

 

So just remember.... over here in the UK petrol (gasoline) is the equivalent of $9.32 a gallon.

My point is.... Consider yourselves lucky. Things can always get worse.

 

The people up in arms would be those going for Lancer, of course. And that's the point: Lancer is optional, the basic 501st requirements are what it takes to join the Legion with a particular costume, or for a member to be official with another costume. Raising the stakes to just shy of Lancer takes the option away in a sense and forces it onto people. And I've seen a few people in my neck of the woods who were interested in joining shy away this past week from doing a scout.

 

If you start down the line of, "well.... it doesn't matter that, that bit wasn't used in the film..."

You end up like this guy....

 

Allow me to play devil's advocate then: We go so far in requirements that fat people need not apply for armored costumes, because I'm pretty sure the only "fluffy" (thank you Gabriel Iglesias) characters were the Gammoreans, the guy who raised the Rancor, Dengar, and Jabba himself. Now, we can't do that in the States because of anti-discrimination laws, I'm not sure about elsewhere. So you mention that slippery slope, where do you draw the line?

[4505Marcel]

It has nothing to do with what garrison people are from but what the costume needed, I myself put this to the legion for approval, yes I am from the UKG but this was agreed with our US brothers so its a joint decission to what the costume needed and had been missing for a long time. This is done now, theres is no going back the costume bottom line was missing some major parts and this has now been rectified.

 

Im sorry but to say guys are not doing a scout now because they now need a vest and some flight suit patches is plain silly and a little overboard, its at minimal cost and for what a more accurate costume at the end. These details should have been put in the first place in my opinion and if they were we wouldnt even be having the discussion here now simples guys would just be getting on with it and enjoying the scout.

 

This is no different here from any other costumes in the legion, the scout is still by far one of the most cheapest to do even with a flak vest and a patch. I dont know what trooppers are going to do if this little extra work is too much to take on board, as that then that eleminates pretty much 90% of the costumes in the legion cost/work wise.

I estimated £80 for the changes and have been told by several people it can be done far cheaper than that, and possibly an extra 2 days max on the build if doing it yourself, Im sorry but that is not too much to ask.

 

These changes are here to stay now, it has been agreed by the staff and high up in the legion as what the scout CRL needed, I realise in the short term im probably now going to be the bad guy Ive stuck my neck out for what I think is right for this costume in the future, and maybe it will even loose me votes in the future if thats the case i will take it on the chin, but further down the line we are going to forget this and have some pretty darn nice scouts out trooping for the 501st.

 

Im going to lock this thread now as I feel we are chasing tails and going round in circles, Im happy the majority have said on here and via pm that this is a great move forward for the scout in general, and to those just starting out or have started their builds, Im so sorry you have a little more work to do, and a little extra money to find I really am but you costume will be so much better for it trust me.