automaton Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Hey Everyone, So I'm about to order my armor and am pretty sure it will be from MC, however, my MLC helmet showed up yesterday and holy cow that thing is amazing. When I pulled it out of the box and felt the fiberglass material it felt less like a costume and more like I actually got the real thing. So here's my question, MLC also makes a set of fiberglass armor. He sent me some pictures and for the most part it all looks pretty good. The only thing that looked slightly off to me was the tank topper but it could just be the angle. Here is a link to the pictures http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?use...album_id=180383 I was wondering what you guys think and if you or anyone you know has a set of MLC armor and how accurate it looks. I think having fiberglass armor along with the helmet would just make it that much cooler. Thanks, -a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCBacara Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Hey Everyone, So I'm about to order my armor and am pretty sure it will be from MC, however, my MLC helmet showed up yesterday and holy cow that thing is amazing. When I pulled it out of the box and felt the fiberglass material it felt less like a costume and more like I actually got the real thing. So here's my question, MLC also makes a set of fiberglass armor. He sent me some pictures and for the most part it all looks pretty good. The only thing that looked slightly off to me was the tank topper but it could just be the angle. Here is a link to the pictures http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?use...album_id=180383 I was wondering what you guys think and if you or anyone you know has a set of MLC armor and how accurate it looks. I think having fiberglass armor along with the helmet would just make it that much cooler. Thanks, -a I don't have this armor and I actually know nothing about it. However I have a lot of friends locally here in the 501st that have been trooping for a few years and they advised me again Fiber Glass armor. Apparently it looks a lot better, however I am told it is very fragile. So you drop it at the wrong angle, or you turn the wrong way while wearing it and it could shatter. There is no give in the material like there is with ABS and PVC. So like I said...this is just what I was advised by some other folks, not from personal experience. I myself have SC armor and have ordered an MLC helmet (and the thought of dropping my helmet really scares me...lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjsavage7 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I don't know much about the MLC armor, but I used to have fiberglass armor from an older source and it was indeed very fragile. It cracked across the chest, and the belt snapped in half. I love my nice sturdy ABS armor I have now from SC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automaton Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Thanks for the information. I hadn't thought about it being fragile. I was thinking it'd be a lot more robust. The MLC helmet feels so solid. Of course I haven't dropped it (and don't plan to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Fiberglass, while more rigid, is not happy when it gets dropped or struck with a pointed object. The extra weight may also make it more uncomfortable to wear for longer periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I have to disagree with you all here. I've been wearing fibrelgass armour for ages now and it's bomb proof. The only time it's fragile is if the glass lay-up is thin. If it's made with a gel coat, then a skin of tissue and maybe a 1 ounce mat, then sure, it's going to be as fragile as hell and will break as soon as you look at it. If you start to add more glass layers, then the inherent rigidity comes to the fore. A 2-3 ounce lay-up is probably best, providing a decent panel strength combined with relative light weight. They do make car body panels out of it after all!! Weight wise, my glass bucket isn't that much heavier than a vinyl rubies lid. I've even been airsofting in my set (I'm not precious about my kit, I like to have fun in it) and I was more than able to run around in it all day. It suffered no more damage than a bit of chipped paintwork from a particularly up close and personal shot. Granted it doesn't have as much give as an ABS set, but it's certainly just as durable. Plus it actually 'feels' like Armour. I don't get kids going 'oh it's only plastic' when they rap on it with a grubby paw. Like they do on the TK's standing next to me. I'd have fibreglass over ABS any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 White gelcoated fibreglass looks great, slight knocks to the finish can be buffed out and it can be very robust , depending on the no. of layers. As the originals were all plastic this is my preferred material, but even plastic can be damaged, the overall look will be the same whatever it is made with. Rob, tell the kids it is Plasteel, very advanced Imperial issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Thank you John for stating the obvious, which a lot of people seem to be missing when they make a prop replica costume. We are trying to make the costume as accurate as possible to the screen used one for look and feel. If I make the armor out of steel plate, it will be VERY robust and never bend and the little kids will break their fingers poking me, and it will look BETTER than the screen stuff, and I'll add flashing lights and racing stripes and stuff and it will look great.... ...but it won't look like or be like the screen used stuff. When people keep telling me it looks better to have something cleaner and missing the film details, or carrying a BFG or flashing lights and a bright gold or silver lens, I can only replay with... "what costume do you think you are making?" Fiberglass is an option, a heavier, less flexible, less screen accurate option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Fiberglass is an option, a heavier, less flexible, less screen accurate option. So you'd advise people to get a KS bucket over an MLC lid? Also, I point you to these. (in particular the Mystery Armour) and this. Then this. (it's a flip, I know...sorry) I can't fathom such a comment! I don't think the substrate has much bearing on the screen accuracy. Surely the look of the thing does. And by the same rationale, seeing as the LANCER standard is supposed to reflect the highest screen accuracy, ANYONE who has used a fibreglass bucket (MLC included) or a Modded Rubies bucket (vinyl) shouldn't be granted that title because it doesn't reflect Screen Accuracy. The screen ones were ABS. Any TK using a resin or pipe made blaster, aren't being screen accurate, because the screen used ones were De-activated ones. I don't wish to get into a slanging match about it. I have my opinion and you have yours. But as Detachment Leader, to say such a comment which casts some serious conflict over the Costume Standard, I think is a little unwise. I shall get back in my box now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 My opinion was based simply on appearance and materials. it is true that the screen used items were not fiberglass, except some of the stunt stuff. As for MLC helmets, I would recommend the Kropserkel over the MLC any day. The MLC snout is a bit longer than the screen used, the visor and faceplate are a single piece. However, it is a fairly good representation of the helmet and enough to pass. We need to keep the rules strict enough, yet simple enough for some to pass. Again, it's about appearance. Some of the armors you posted have issues, some have tank size and backplate size issues (the KS is notorious for this), the mystery armor is not even going to be part of the discussion, it's way off. And lastly the last photo, which I guess is the MLC armor (I have never seen any in person or offered up on BSN), shows a tank which is part of the backplate. They are two separate pieces. Not everything is perfect. if we strived for total perfection, none of us would be good enough, there is nobody here with 80+% accurate in my mind. It doesn't mean it's not good enough. Lately, we've had a rash of people supporting/making various items and pushing them, asking for opinions, then not liking the opinions provided. Well I'm sorry about that. If you ask my opinion, I'm going to give it to you, DL or not. As DL, it's more important for me to be honest than anyone. People spend money based on my opinion and others here on the forums. If I'm asked my opinion about an item and it doesn't look right or is made from a material that the screen used one was not, I'm going to say so. I'm not going to say "Oh that is fabulous and I recommend it completely" when someone asks about an undersuit in two pieces, made of silk with mesh for comfort and coolness. That's not how the screen used one was. Our attempt in the 501st, and on this forum is to try and get as close to the screen used as possible, over the years, it's gotten better, closer and some makers are pushing out some great stuff, some, on the other hand are not. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion. I'm allowed to have it as you are yours, as is anyone else. Please do not question my desire to do right by this detachment and this costume again, it's very uncalled for and as you said, slanging. Reminds me when people say "Well I don't mean to be insulting, but (insert insult)". You have the ability to set the standards yourself. You can run for election and win. The current standards, both lancer and base crl were set by myself and previous and current leaders of this detachment, along with valued others for input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have edited my post to be less confrontational. My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 iPhone sucks at editing on these forums, I should have waited till I got back to the office. I accidentally deleted half my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatshock Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 all valid arguments. omg at least there isnt the whole ABS/HIPS arguments in TB world! at the end of the day, all clearable cossies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'm ok, you ok? BTW, where's your application, stop posting and get building. I need you to get your app in so I can do something Nathan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automaton Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 There are definitely some differences in philosophy here. Having worked in film, I know that many times things are done knowing they will look right on film, but may not look perfect up close and in person. I personally have no intention of filming myself as a biker scout but do plan to be out in the real world where people will be able to see and touch the costume. Because of this I would rather have things made to look and feel "real" rather than do it exactly the way the screen used ones were done. I still want it to look right of course. I'm not gonna go adding a jet pack or a feather to the side of my helmet just because I think it looks cooler. I understand also that this may preclude me from ever getting lancer status, but I think I'm ok with that. This is just my opinion of course. I do understand those who want to be as screen accurate as possible. Oh, and I do want to clarify that I do NOT think a feather on the side of the helmet would make it look cooler. It was just an example. -a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 The only thing that will preclude you from getting lancer status is if it is not shaped or proportioned correctly, or the tank/back is one piece. Lancer is about appearance. I never said anywhere in my posts that fiberglass armor couldn't pass Lancer, just stuff I have seen so far could not. The MLC helmet is fiberglass and it passes. There is ABS stuff out there that does not pass. I think a feather would look cooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automaton Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 I wasn't specifically referring to the fiberglass when I was talking about being precluded from making lancer. I was just saying that there may come a time when I make a decision on something that may not be to lancer standards. In that situation I was saying that I'd be ok knowing I couldn't get lancer if it was something that would make me happier with my costume. For me it's more important to have a costume that makes me feel really excited to be wearing it than one that is exactly screen accurate (but still pretty darn close). So Witness, you are telling me that I should include the feather when I send in my application? -a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 One last note and I'll stop posting here Lancer is not about being perfect, nobody will ever get perfect. Lancer is about being as close as humanly possible. This means we have to allow items that people can easily attain to make their costumes. We allow flight suits, racing suits, dickies for undersuits when the original was a cloth motorcycle suit. I don't want people to misunderstand my opinion and think I am stating you can't use what items you want, you simply need to meet the standards which are clearly marked in the visual CRL posted on the 501st.com site.. The only time opinion comes further into play is for Lancer applications here. Lancer is handled by 3 members of the site staff here and a lot of it is personal feel and judgement, that's just the way it is. We allow MonCal and Studio Creations armor as far as I have seen in Lancer history, we've allowed MLC, KS and Altmann's helmets. We all have our opinions, which is where there are three on the team. I am somewhat vocal in my opinions and pretty hard headed. That comes from giving my opinions so many times. I'm trying to help people get the best equipment they possibly can. I don't have any preconceived notions about what is best based upon anything I sell. I make boots, but I never push my own product, I always link to Marcel and my threads. he has as much a chance as me. I know there are others out there, and they are welcome to come and advertise, MonCal's group makes boots too, but he does not advertise those here. Anyway, I hope nothing I said was taken in an argumentative or dictatorial fashion. I'm always open to quality products and allow anyone to advertise here, but be careful, if your product is not accurate, or you ask my opinion, I'm certainly going to give it to you. And for next year when I am elected, I'm going to change the Lancer specs to include pink shaded armor.. and feathers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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