Guest MikeC23 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 So finally...after searching, researching, investigating and then having the fortunate luck of stumbling across the "right" people, I was able to find out what the SA fabric is/was and where it can be acquired. So I ordered some swatches that came yesterday and lo and behold, it's the right stuff, so I placed an order for a couple yards of each type of fabric, hopefully it should be here in a week, or so, then I can re-remake my vest and cummerbund....again. Lol. I'll keep you guys updated if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chex Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 OOo yes, do keep us informed. Nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Great job Mike,I look forward to seeing what it actually is like, another costume question answered hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySewForUs Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Question Are you referring to KS or the Standard Biker Scout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Question Are you referring to KS or the Standard Biker Scout? I would guess he means standard Biker Scout. This is the Biker Scout Armory section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I would guess he means standard Biker Scout. This is the Biker Scout Armory section. No, Lady's first guess was right, it's the KS. Here's a pic of the swatch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherHalo Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 So you're saying it's just a figment of my imagination? Or that it's a representation of the material that the machines want me to believe it is? Or are you saying "there is no swatch"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ74 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 So you're saying it's just a figment of my imagination? Or that it's a representation of the material that the machines want me to believe it is? Or are you saying "there is no swatch"? Do you think that is air you're breathing?.... Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Well I finally got the last of the three fabrics today. I took some comp. shots but they didn't turn out that great I'll try and shoot some better pics tomorrow in the sunlight, the florescent and flash is really misrepresenting how the fabric looks in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 As a person who has had made multiple visists to the Archives in the 1990's to early 2001 I have handled the costume on several occasions. Here is the info I was able to obtain from visual inspection, the Archives records, and the films costume designers: The original suit was an Esprit racing suit that was popular in the States and Europe in the 1970's. The suit and gloves were reccommended by Peter Diamond as he and his "team" had worked with the suit in the past. In the 1970's the suit was purchased for around 225.00 US. Matching gloves were also purchased. It is believed that they were sourced in the U.K.. I am not sure if the prototype fitting race suits were the same brand, but I would suspect that they probably were. To my knowledge no other suit was used for the Scouts. I have heard rumors that the Scouts could have also used Toyota V4 racing suits, but that has never been confirmed. As for the materials for the vest/ cummberbund, and pouches, I was told by LFL Archives when I handled the costume on my 2nd visit to the Archives that the pouches and cumberbund were made out of muslin (sp). Now this is where LFL tends to make errors......using visual inspection and according to the films wardrobe manager the true material was duck cloth. There is no big mystery to the costume materials as anyone that has seen the suit on display at the MOM Exhibit can affirm the materials used. Of course we could go into detail for years on the subject but in the end the fabrics are the same. Sources: Peter Diamond 1995, Don Bies (LFL) 1996 visit , Layla French (LFL) by phone 2009, Nilo Rodis-Jamero (films costume designer) interview 1995 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Duck cloth is also known as cotton canvas to some in the textiles world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks Dan. Any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks for that info, Dan. Very cool. A couple questions... The Esprit suits and the potential Toyota V4s had shirt collars, as opposed to the common and prevalent Mandarin collars? The cummerbund and pouches are the same exact fabric? Also, I'm a little unclear on your post above...Are you quoting the sources you listed below, or are you saying that you've handled the archived Scout yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks for that info, Dan. Very cool. Your welcome. The Esprit suits and the potential Toyota V4s had shirt collars, as opposed to the common and prevalent Mandarin collars? The suit that I saw at both the Archives and the MOM exhibit had a standard velcro wrap around collar like we use on todays race suits. The cummerbund and pouches are the same exact fabric? If memory serves, and my notes are correct still .....then yes they are, just different colors. Edit: The base vest body and pouches/ cumberbund are the same material only died, and the sleeves on the vest body are a different material that I am not sure what it is. Also, I'm a little unclear on your post above...Are you quoting the sources you listed below, or are you saying that you've handled the archived Scout yourself? Both. I have personaly handled the scout costume on a few occasions, both in the Archives and when on tour with the MOM exhibit. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thank you Dan, will you be my friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thank you Dan, will you be my friend? Sure.....why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Again, thanks for that valuable, first-hand information, Dan. I would actually like to discuss this a little more in-depth, but for some reason, some folks around here have a tendency to become somewhat perturbed, or frustrated, or take my inquires the wrong way, or....I don't know... but I certainly don't want that to continue to happen. So would it be cool if I asked you a couple more questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherHalo Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Again, thanks for that valuable, first-hand information, Dan. I would actually like to discuss this a little more in-depth, but for some reason, some folks around here have a tendency to become somewhat perturbed, or frustrated, or take my inquires the wrong way, or....I don't know... but I certainly don't want that to continue to happen. So would it be cool if I asked you a couple more questions? SOME people? Nobody here is against you asking questions, Mike. The only thing I've seen anyone take issue with is the fact that you seem to poo poo on the idea that there are others who have done as much (or less or more) research as you have and have come to different conclusions. Nobody but the costume designers and anyone who has personally handled the costume can claim any certainty on any aspect of the costume - unfortunately. Shoot, if nobody asked any questions, we'd still be stuck with 1999-era quality costumes. So ask away. Hollywood ain't shy. He just likes to keep it Beverly Hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Again, thanks for that valuable, first-hand information, Dan. I would actually like to discuss this a little more in-depth, but for some reason, some folks around here have a tendency to become somewhat perturbed, or frustrated, or take my inquires the wrong way, or....I don't know... but I certainly don't want that to continue to happen. So would it be cool if I asked you a couple more questions? Sure. If I can answer them I will be happy too. However I do disagree with your statement as I have found BSN to be a a great open community of information. We are all striving for the samething......accuracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 SOME people? Nobody here is against you asking questions, Mike. The only thing I've seen anyone take issue with is the fact that you seem to poo poo on the idea that there are others who have done as much (or less or more) research as you have and have come to different conclusions. Nobody but the costume designers and anyone who has personally handled the costume can claim any certainty on any aspect of the costume - unfortunately. Shoot, if nobody asked any questions, we'd still be stuck with 1999-era quality costumes. So ask away. Hollywood ain't shy. He just likes to keep it Beverly Hills. Alright BrotherHalo......................now you & Witness are going to get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 SOME people? Nobody here is against you asking questions, Mike. Inherently I am anything but timid, or sensitive and after being in the world of Tattooing for 16+ years I have developed a thick, Kevlar skin. But, being on the receiving end of this occasional and subtle passive-aggressive animosity, I'm well aware of what's going on, so I will have to respectfully disagree with you, Bob. But enough about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeC23 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Sure. If I can answer them I will be happy too. Cool! Okay, I'll start with the collar....I can not find a single Mandarin collar on any stunt, or hero Scout in the entire movie, they all have either, loose fitting, or ribbed neck-seals, under pointed shirt collars, even the MoM Scout has an up-turned, round-tip, shirt collar, void of any Velcro. That's why I do not understand the whole Racing Suit issue, since having a shirt collar (as all the SU & MoM Scouts do), flapping around at high speeds (especially on a bike), totally defeats the purpose of wearing a Race Suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherHalo Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hey, no sweat, bro. My name is Bob Tyrrell, just like the tat artist. I don't have any ink, but can enthusiastically appreciate the art form. I'm just taking my time to figger out what I want. Seriously, though, there's no shame in being ballsy, but, as with the nature of being online, any sort of subtle nuances that face-to-face conversation (or even just voice-to-voice) is lost. Like Hollywood said, we're all just striving for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Cool! Okay, I'll start with the collar....I can not find a single Mandarin collar on any stunt, or hero Scout in the entire movie, they all have either, loose fitting, or ribbed neck-seals, under pointed shirt collars, even the MoM Scout has an up-turned, round-tip, shirt collar, void of any Velcro. That's why I do not understand the whole Racing Suit issue, since having a shirt collar (as all the SU & MoM Scouts do), flapping around at high speeds (especially on a bike), totally defeats the purpose of wearing a Race Suit. What your not seeing in the photo, which can only be seen in person by comparing two of the actual suits together, is that the MOM suit is missing the external protection flap that velcro's to the other side. There is a stitch pattern on the left side of the collar that shows the flap remnants as being ripped off either during production or shortly afterwards. The other suit in the archives which is in much better condition still has the fire flap in place. The motorcycle suits of the today have the same basic principle but in a "trimmed" fashion. Meaning that that flap is not as wide, but serves the same purpose of protecting the exposed portion of the neck from fire, but allows the rider when needed to open the collar for suit removal, and air. Also the MOM exhibit suit was "cleaned up" for the display. The total outfit you see is actually a combination of a few complete suits made into one (suit, vest, armor, pouches etc etc used for one sole display), which include a back tank red square that is original production made, but unknown if ever actually used in the film. The remaining velcro attachment was removed either during production or thereafter. However in person you can see the darker suit shade where the velcro once was. Also bare in mind that stunt suits are not always the same as the hero suits since they are often modified for use in stunts, and are not intended to been seen with great detail. This is common practice. If you have ever seen a Scout stunt helmet, you will notice the differences to that of the hero. Also in the photo you highlighted I believe you are seeing three items. 1. Internal elastic fire flap which runs the width, and length of the upper torso. 2. External racing suit minus the external fire flap 3. Vest trim above the fire suit Edit: I forgot to add....the collars you are seeing, are not upturned shirt collars. The design of the Esprit race suit has up turned neck protection which I believe was call "a butterfly" opening. When you see the costume in person, you can see that the suit collar is manufactured in the up ward position, and not simply turned up like a shirt collar. The costume designer for the film would know more than anyone what as used. He stated specificly an Esprit race suit that was selected by Peter Diamond, then modified by the wardrobe dept with the suede, straps etc. His assertions match the item in person so there is no doubt what was used as the costume base. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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