Two specific types of Biker Scout

[lonewolf]

This is just a suggestion, but what about Death Star Biker Scout for clean and Endor Biker Scout for dirty, I know most clean Biker Scouts like to think new recruit to Endor or something like that but we didn't see any new recruits on Endor.I think if there was a distinct named difference most of us would be going dirty Scout. I just dirtied up a Biker Scout costume and owning a clean version, was very tempted to go Endor Biker Scout. Any thoughts guys?

 

[TB-7076]

When I assembled my scout my goal was always o have the battle weary scout.

Now I have that gear for one and a half year and it still isn't weatherd in the way shown on Endor

but it doesn't look clean like a garrisoned trooper.

 

So Troopers who go for clean Death star Parade version won't last long in that designation I think.

 

 

I already have toyed around having two gears as in certain events it is more suitabale to be clean

though

[Dart]

While I'm not trying to keep my scout clean, I'm also not trying to be too dirty. Partly because I want the suit to weather naturally and partly because the cleaner version is a bit more suitable when doing canon events. When I get the cash, I'd actually like to have 2 suits: 1 clean and 1 dirty.

[Guest NAZGÛL]

This is just a suggestion, but what about Death Star Biker Scout for clean and Endor Biker Scout for dirty, I know most clean Biker Scouts like to think new recruit to Endor or something like that but we didn't see any new recruits on Endor.I think if there was a distinct named difference most of us would be going dirty Scout. I just dirtied up a Biker Scout costume and owning a clean version, was very tempted to go Endor Biker Scout. Any thoughts guys?

 

That makes a lot of sense. Ive heard stormies use that logic as well.

 

I love the weathered look, but the original weathering was pretty sloppy in style. Do you use the same spray can approach the ILM guys did, or do you add a more realistic look?

[Acrylikhan]

I was going to wear it and let it get dirty naturally with troopin'. (... as soon as I can get it completed! :lol: )

 

Some one did a "sticky note" about weathering techniques. It might be in the archive somewhere... AH! here it is!!!

 

http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=1998

 

[lonewolf]

Good post Frank, yes it looks grubby alright, the original weathering techniques were pretty basic, it looks like they were lined up and hit with black and grey spray paint, very effective looking for the film but in reality maybe not so good. The idea of trooping long enough and getting a build up of dirt is fine but it will not look like the film dirt, I am going to try a bit of a mixture, movie style, dirty it up a tad and troop till I drop, it might just work

[TB-7076]

I sued a more natural looking method to get my AT-ST helmet weathered movie style but also looking authentic

not only on pictures.

 

Is used oil-chalk and coal to mix it simulating the smoke .

As the helmet is made from fiberglas I was able to apply real damage with a screw driver.

I also used ink and dry brush techniques known form model assembly and minature painting.

 

The result is very convincing as it recaptures the movie representation but is realistic for the audience not that

recognizable as fake like spray paint puffs.

 

I'm going a similar route once my scout is completely finished....

 

Here is apicture:

[Acrylikhan]

Nice job on the helmet! (wear did you get it?)

[Guest NAZGÛL]

Hey, that a great mixture between movie look and realistic weathering! Well done.

 

Thats is one of the best ATST helmets Ive seen.

 

What costume is more popular this or the scout?

[TB-7076]

Nice job on the helmet! (wear did you get it?)

 

I developed it with the help of a friend who build it; Mastershigerit who should be also member

on this board.

It was the first helmet to feature the correct range finder box on the helmet.

As it's fiberglas and material costs in germany generally are higher it is a more rare sight

in the legion.

 

What costume is more popular this or the scout?

 

Scout of course

[lonewolf]

I have been reading the new CRL for Return of the Jedi Stormtroopers at FISD and they are making a distinction between the "stunt" and "Hero" costumes. This only applies at the most accurate costuming level. Biker Scouts could also use this distinction.

 

I am returning to this post to see if BS.N have any ideas regarding these Biker Scout distinctions. Death Star[clean] or Endor[dirty] costume choice.

The idea that there are TD greeblies up, down and missing shouldn't be a problem for high level accuracy either.

We have talked about the flaired visor and widened eye area on the "Hero" stuntman, both of these peculiarities may be by accident/human error rather than a design necessity, I am not sure.

 

Maybe future Lancer Biker Scouts could be termed Endor Lancer or Death Star Lancer.

 

The differences are mainly weathering, it could even be subdivided into stunt dirty/Hero dirty.

 

I am not sure the lens size/shade are any different, possibly amber at times. The pockets are off white/beige in both types. There could be differences in the use of a balaclava for stunt guys and a wide ribbed neck seal for "Hero" guys. The undersuit may have been different for the closeup ,indoor, bluescreen shots compared to the outdoor Endor guys. This could be the reasons for the collars on the closeup guy "fighting" Han. Maybe Endor/California Red Woods guys all wore a different undersuit due to heat?

Unfortunately just more ? regarding our costume.

 

Any views?

[TB-7076]

While I'd support a distinction between factory clean Scouts ans battle worn Scouts I wouldn't call them hero and stunt and I wouldn't usw ribbed neck seals.

 

Reasoning:

There is no movie evidence for a specially outfitted Scout for close ups.

The PR shot with high closed neck may be seen as hero but I think that single detail doesn't qualify.

 

I have never seen proof that any Scout had a ribbed neckseal.

 

 

I'd use something like deployed and garrisoned or the like.

[4505Marcel]

I agree with Philipp I cant really see the point either at this point, we struggle at best to get anyone to go for lancer (maybe two or three a year) let alone go for a certain style. Fact is its just not as common for folk to bother to go above and beyond with our beloved scout. Its not like the TK's where nearly everyone goes for ceturian or similar, plus we didnt really have a stunt or hero version like the TK's as no main charector needed a close up for us so no extra details , we were just thrown together if you like.

 

Now this is just my view and mine only but I never understood the lack of thought that went into weathering on a scout either, its absolutely pants in my eyes. Just spaying some paint that was probably left over from some other prop, and used that on a really nice set of armour in such a way that possibly could happen in duty. I wish they had paid a little more attention when they did it, lets look at it this way where the heck would they get daft black paint splats like that from in a forest, fact is they wouldnt.

I went for a more real world look and I opted for greens and brown pigments that would happen in a forrest, and I flicked along the sides of my helmet and armour with a sponge to look like branches had whipped against it. I also added very dark brown/black flicked with a tooth brush to look like oil splats from the speeder, which to me makes alot more sense.

 

Weathering should always be optional in my mind, as it has always has been. For me it comes down to a troopers taste on how they want their armour to look as long as the fundamentals are there armour wise especially as clean and dirty are seen on screen so who are we to judge as long as the build is good. I was just talking about this to Andi today, and he also agreed this should be done for your own taste and pride if a trooper decides to go uber accurate. There are still too many details/measurments missing that we dont know about, to ever call ourselves ubber uber accurate but can only hope we come up trumps one day as we slowly are.

[TB-7076]

Err I need to interrupt here because I think while you say you agree with me (and I was positive on the base idea of John) you have misunderstood the notion.

So I try to get us back on track.

 

As far as I understood John he doesn't wants a centuron like uber screenaccurate class above above lancer but a distinction in clean and battle weary scout uniforms.

If brought into the classification system of the 501st it would be two sub categories of the TB classification.

 

similar to TK - ANH Stunt or TK - ANH hero or TK-ESB etc

 

we then would have

 

 

TB - guard / garrisoned

TB - field duty / deployed

 

I only disagreed on a classification as hero and stunt as I don't see that with scout armor - all scouts seem to be quite homogenous in their appearnce maybe with the exception of the prototype stuff like upper leg armor, tan suede patches and strapped boot holster and one Scout having the red/orange tone in the lens. But I think these don't qualify for a clear distinction into hero and stunt scout.

 

 

John correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I udnerstood...

[TB-7076]

Have to add one thing!

 

Why I think the idea is justified is:

 

Imagine someone has two scout costumes, one dirty and one clean but he can only have one scout registered as 501st costume!

We have had the problem with some bounty hunters that had various boba fett costumes of different movies and of course the TKs that began to make multiple TK costumes that couldn't be registered due to the fact they all ran under TK.

 

That is why on 501st data base level we got the distinctions into categories and then different sub categories of one class like

 

BH - Boba Fett ESB

BH - boba Fett ROTJ

BH - Boba Fett SE etc etc etc

 

I think that is why I feel the idea is good and might open a new perspective for those who want to go for both looks of the scouts.

I know I want theat too

[lonewolf]

Yes this is a discussion , not about how the weathering techniques are/were applied or about how a Biker Scout costumer decides to build his costume.

 

Asthe thread title states, Two specific types of Biker Scout,

 

TB Garrisoned/ ready for duty/ Deathstar/pen pusher etc

TB Deployed/Endor/field tested/field duty/Battle hardened etc

 

I like a few of these names, Pen Pusher maybe not!

The actual name could be voted on, if we have this as a label for the costume we sport.

These are distinctions, they are two "different" costumes, I was making guys aware that the FISD allow for this similar distinction regarding the ROTJ Stormtroopers, although as I tried to explain there are a few variations in the kit, independant of which version we have.

I am going off specific topic to talk about the details again,

the Biker Scout chasing Luke has a neckseal, this was bluescreen scenes filmed indoors at a different time to Endor/ The Red Woods. Also depending on just how much belief you have in the Blu-Ray Biker Scout model it looks to be the same, a wider ribbing neckseal and made of cloth. I personally believe LFL didn't add this detail to the model, the screen grab potentially confirms it was used IMO.

 

Yes we need a lot more info for the wee details but we know there were clean and dirty Biker Scouts for a fact.

[4505Marcel]

With reguard to TK's or bobas having various labels the difference are there only because of the various films as they appeared in more than one and hero or stunt none of which applies to scouts as we were just in one movie with no main charectors that required special add ons if you like like the did for luke or Han.

 

There is no mr no stripes or missing parts labeled troopers.

 

So this is not the same really, but yes I can see where your going with the death star or endor deployed. But a scout is still a scout wether its dirty or not. Would the legion go for two different labels just because of weathering mmm im not sure as weathering has always been optional.

 

Possibly this will have to stay within the BSN and troopers listed on here as say pathfinder deployed or pathfinder garrisoned, and the same for our lancers?

[TB-7076]

Seriously the different label would be no difference for teh costume aspect but just a possiblity to have two types displayed for one member.

You can't have both registered as 501st costume without a sub category.

And for the public it won't be a difference just that Joe Smoe is displayed with two Scout costumes , one bright white and one battle worn.

 

A label as brought up by John and myself are

 

a) nothing really visible to the general public

just a label for administration, nothing we have to bother with but GMLs to sort out

 

 

I personally think that is something to be reconsidered and maybe proposed to the LMO by detchment staff if we agree that this is a benefit for the membership.

As I said - I think so as it sounds logical. I wouldn't necessarily port this to the forum system like you said - in general we're still Pathfinders.

 

Maybe the lancer program could be expanded for more movie accurate weathering and we need two CRLs then but that's that.

What about a poll to see if there is a brader base that would justify such a change to the category?

[Dart]

I see where everyone is going but I think the best way to do it would be a garrisoned/deployed designation. But those would have to mean that the deployed one be dirtied up and the garrisoned one not. But then you've got those in between - the scouts who have the natural weathering but aren't dirty.

 

Ultimately, I don't know if it would be successful to have specific designations. I know for my garrison, my CO tries to steer us scouts away from being really weathered simply because it looks weird if you've got one dirty scout and 3 or 4 clean scouts. Also, for LFL events, I don't know that they would want a dirty scout if they can get a clean one.

[TB-7076]

TKs have natural weathering as well - looking at my TOD pictures you won't see the difference and actually mine has some marks already.

Some TKs in my garrison go for centurion look so the have the chipping on helmet and rubber prints and even tapes were they were.

Still they're welcomed on high profile events.

 

For those who have only one dirty or one clean scout this would bring no change but for those with two it would be fine.

Sandtroopers are also featurede on high profile events! And LFL once send in their very own dirty scouts (brinn71).

[StudioCreations]

I personally like designations to be instantly recognizable by a first-time costumer coming into this hobby . "Clean" and "Dirty" brand the look of a costume immediately. Perhaps there is better terminology or a word that is more common between languages.... possibly "Not Soiled" and "Soiled".

 

Using a designation like "Endor" or "Deathstar" is ambiguous. A first-timer would not know what we are talking about for a while, probably 3 or 4 threads worth of reading at least.

[Evil-Inc]

Down here, if a trooper is new & clean, we call them shineys.

If they have a lived in look & are dirtier, we call them vets (veterans)...

[TB-7076]

As this discussion was mentioned in the other discussion I repeat and extend my answer from there:

 

 

Forming inofficial squads (which probably can be done even without consent of the detachment or the legion).

Having a distinction between costume appearances to allow having two costumes registered to be abe to troop is a structural thing.

Actually it would be decided on legion level by the LMO - it would be just logical that the detachment comes up with this idea and support it.

 

Dirty or clean scout affects the way the different costume are handled especially if someone owns both. Outwardly they will remain TBs like all the others.

I think on legion level they even don't make a difference in the gallery for the specific TK types even though some are very individual like those of the new video games.

 

Having groups within the group that usually only has one artisan group to support upgrades is something different. With a logo and individual name they actually look for another identity and group.

 

I expand on the structural issue:

 

Both - weathered and clean Scouts - have to be cleared and both have to be registered to have his troop recognised as 501st troop. You don't have to change scout CRLs entirely if any. You don't necessarily have to carry it to the lancer program or distinguish in the forum by label.

 

To be able to display several costumes of the same aspect has been the reason for sub categories. It started out with the problems GMLs had entering different bounty hunters and different costumes of one specific bounty hunter for example Boba Fett. TKs followed with their different looks in each episode etc etc.

 

TKs nowadays have like a zillion sub categories with all the crazy troopers the game and comic industry has invented.

 

 

The battle weary scout is what we see and recognise the most in the movies.

However there are clean scouts in ROTJ as well.

 

If a TK fanatic goes for the three major manifestations of the classic TK (ANH/ESB/ROTJ or Tour Suit) he can have all three displayed in the TK gallery of the 501st and legally troop in them with the TK designator.

 

If a Scout fanatic goes for the two manifestations of the Scout Trooper in ROTJ he can only have one displayed in the 501st gallery and is dependend on the grace of his garrison command if both are accepted. I guess you have to have many enemies within your garrison to have it not accpeted but it's not in the sense of equality if you have to make an "excemption" every time you wear your dirty scout instead of the registered clean scout.

 

So we have this opportunity on legion level why not use it to allow for legal use and display of two different costumes of one aspect?