Spidy2456 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi, my name is Sam. I wish to make my own Kashyyyk armour. I am completely new at making armour and I haven't got a clue on how to do it. I think this is the method: Make the model of the armour out of clay Vacuum form it Cut it out and paint it. If so could anyone please tell me what type of clay to use? thanks Sam P.S. I am hoping to do this for one for my school projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk 7261 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 welcome man. sound like fun. i dont think you can vacuuform all the parts (like the helmet) but ill let someone with more armor building experience help you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witness Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Lots of info here on how to make armor from scratch. Good luck, it's a lot of work! From another page on that site, he writes, "Sculpting in Clay I tend to use an OIL-BASED clay rather than Earthen based clay. Oil based clay does not dry out when left in the open air, eathen based clay will. Not drying out means I can walk away from the sculpting table at a moments notice and not worry about covering up my sculpture, or maintaining the clays 'wetness' as I work on the sculpture. Kleen-Klay, Chavant and Sculptey III are my favorite clays to work with. Sculptey is best clay for projects smaller than 3 inches long (you can bake it hard and sand in some very nice details into the hard surface)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vodika Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Welcome bro' Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrylikhan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hey Sam, welcome to the Swampy side of BSN. Good luck with the armor build, and if you have questions, we'll help you out as best we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 hi, thanks for the help, tk 7261 how would you make the helmet? my plan was to vacuum forming the separate parts and then super glue them together. I am planing to use this armour as Air soft armour, and most air soft guns can brake clay, so a clay helmet can not be used. Witness, that web site is amazing! I especially like the part about building your own vacuum former, I never thought of that. (the one at school may be a bit to small.) Thanks for the help sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonescout Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Welcome to KST LAND! Good luck in building the armor! Keep us posted with your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrylikhan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Sam, If you'd like, take a gander over at www.tk560.com, there are some good instructions for building a 24" x 24" vac table. I've build one myself to continue my own armor pursuits... The helmet would have to be broken down into a few pieces: the Faceplate, the hood would be in two pieces, and the bucket would also be two pieces. If you were looking at the helmet, just split it right down the center from top to bottom. After they are cut out, and some cleaning glue 'em together. As for glue, superglue will do fine, but something a bit strong might be better for what your looking for. Maybe an epoxy, or if you can find a urethane (like Gorilla Glue) or soemthing thar would give you the strongest bond. ABS cement will work with styrene but too much will cause the plastic to melt. Then its just a matter of cleaning the seam lines with bondo, some sanding, and some patience, and then painting. What typoe of plastic to use? ABS is the toughest stuff out there, but HIPS (or High Impact Poly-Styrene) will work just as well. There are many facets to vacuforming, so don't be afraid to ask questions, or experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi, thanks Acrylikhan, I'm not to shore on what type of plastic the school uses but it is very thin. I am planing on useing this for first models and then make the real thing out of ABS Plastic. I don't know what type of ABS to use so any help would be welcome thanks sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrylikhan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi, thanks Acrylikhan, I'm not to shore on what type of plastic the school uses but it is very thin. I am planing on useing this for first models and then make the real thing out of ABS Plastic. I don't know what type of ABS to use so any help would be welcome thanks sam ABS is just that, ABS! It's a blend of two plastics (acrylic and styrene bonded with Butane). Plastic parts of your cellphone, plastic housing on your computer, and television all use ABS plastic. Is forms nicely, and is recyclable! So it's all around you. Of course all of those parts are injection molded... and that's another subject, for another time. ABS tends to be a bit more expensive than plain sheet styrene... its about double the cost. ABS also comes in a few colors, natural (beige), black, and white are usually the standard sheet colors... with white being the most expensive because of the bleaching coloring process involved. ABS is tougher, but styrene will work as well. Both take paint very well too! I would definitely ask your school/teacher/professor what they use. Information is power, and this will can help. Maybe they can order materials you need, or set you up with whom they order from. A few words about thickness of the sheets - .080" thickness ABS will give you great detail! But if you want something a bit stronger go for .100". Just remember that the greater the thickness of the plastic you try to make a form out of, the less crisp the edges, and loss of surface details. You can those details back with bondo,and a whole lota pattern finishing. That too, is another story, for another time. I hope thios helps you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbungle Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 welcome to the KT side of things. good luck with your build. as a guy that did it too , you have a ton of work ahead of you. if you are planning to make a one off, then i would use the regular clay because oil based clays will melt when you vac form it. if you plan to make more then make your vacuum bucks out of anything then make a mold and cast them out of hydrocal or plaster. then they will vacform fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Acrylikhan Thanks for the Help. I can't ask my teacher at the moment because we are on half term . I think I will use 0.100 ABS to give me more protection from the snipers. On the help with the vacuum table. I might make the Gree Commander armour and helmet after this project so I would have to make my own vacuum table, also my teacher may say no to this whole project . So then I would make it at home. A questions: What is bondo? MrBungle Yes this is going to be a one off product, would air drying terra cotta clay be O.K. to use? sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbungle Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 bondo is a autobody filler. they use it to straighten dents and stuff. i use it to sculpt armor and helmets with it. it is a like paste when mixed then hardens , just before it hardens i take a razor knife and carve out shapes ,then sand after it fully cures. depending on weather it can cure in 10 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 What, a sort of super quick air drying clay? Also I just noticed something, Commander Gree's and the Shock Troopers armour is exactly the same, just in a different colour scheme, is it the phase II clone armour? (I mention this because I will make Commander Gree's armour after I have made my Kashyyk scout armour) Sam P.S. is it aright to post about Commander Gree, seeing as he isn't a Kashyyk Scout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB-1019 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi, Sam, I think it's great that you want to take this project on. Being ambitious is definitely a good trait to have if channeled correctly. I think it would be fair to point out a couple of things to you before you invest too much time into this. It's kind of my job here to inject a bit of reality into every situation. First off, the sculpting and molding of armor parts is a more complicated process than you might be aware of. So much that it takes many of the artisans here years and many hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars to get it done right. The cost of materials is just part of what you'll be looking to spend. There is safety equipment, supplies, costs of trial and error, things like that to consider. Before you dive head first into making your armor yourself, I recommend you do some reading up on the process of prop building, casting an molding. A great book for this is Thurston James' "The Prop Builders Molding & Casting Handbook". If you're trying to keep to a budget, see if you can check it out from a local library. Second, you may need to rethink your intentions of using this armor for airsoft. The armor will take only so much abuse before being cracked from taking cover, hitting objects, etc. The thickness of the plastics we use tend to be relatively thin in order to vacuumform edges and details. Vacuumforming tables and machines require stronger sources of suction to pull down thicker plastic and, for our purposes, thicker plastic doesn't take details too well. Remember, our goal is to make armor that looks good and can stand up to light use. It's not intended for much abuse. You can sacrifice detail and accuracy for sturdier armor plating, but your vacuumforming table at school might not be capable of pulling that thickness of plastic you need. It's something you really need to check with your shop instructor. Otherwise, you'll do all this work only to crack and ruin it (or get it punctured with airsoft pellets) the first time you go out. If you need some proof as to the durability of the plastic we use, visit this site, and scroll down to where it reads, "What is the armor made out of?" and "Can your armor be used for Airsofting or Paintballing?" Be sure to look at the pictures below it and see the results of what pellets can do to armor. It may not puncture right away, but it'll leave your armor pockmarked. I'm not saying what you want to do cannot be done, I'm just saying you need to weigh the benefit of having distinctive looking armor with the amount of money you are going to pour into it. Be sure you are willing to sink a lot of time and money into something that is only really going to give you very limited use. If you're rich, or you are willing to keep replacing parts all the time, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Hi TB-1019, Thanks for the advice on the airsoft. I am not a very keen airsofter, I go once or twice a year. so it wouldn't go throught alot of punishment. What thickness of ABS plastic do you recommend for 50% detail 50% Armour? Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrylikhan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Probably .100" would be the best bet. As for Cmdr. Gree... I'm not sure, as I believe his is a camo Phase II armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks Acrylikhan, it is the same as the shock trooper, so it might be phase II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbungle Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i use .125 HIPs. on bigger pieces it will give you the detail and some thickness, smaller parts you can use .100. mianly the taller the object you are trying to pull , the thicker your plastic needs to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbasdead Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Tom, would that terra cotta clay need to be sealed or painted before being used as a mold or does it remain hard enough to be pulled over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbungle Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 if you are doing a one off. as soon as you get it sculpted, spray it with a clear finish and vacform it. because regular clay will dry and crack if it is not cover by a plastic bag. make sure the plastic is soft in all corners before pulling or you will crush part of the sculpt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidy2456 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi, i spoke to my teacher and he said i could do the project at school they use 1mm HIPS plastic, It broke when i shot a tested piece. Im am planning on doing test's with that and then making the final thing in 1.5mm ABS plastic. About the clay, im planning on useing terracotta air drying clay. does it have to be hardenrd to be vacuum formed????????? thanks sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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