Questions: Face/Visor open and closed and damage.

[ImperialWalker]

I am building the Jesus S 3D printed helmet and I'm struggling with how the visor opens/closes.

 

Closed

The first issue I have is that it won't stay closed. I've seen others use velcro, but I would like to avoid this if possible. Mostly because I don't really have anywhere for velcro to go, plus I am not a fan of having to flex the face/visor to open/close it. 

I thought about magnets, but mounting them in some meaningful way seems like a bit of a pain. I thought about some kind of clip system, but wasn't sure what would work. 

Would you guys mind showing me your solutions?


Open

Unfortunately as some of you may have seen in my review, the JS 3D printed helmet does not line up on the pivot point. This means the 3M bolt does not function. The way it works is it uses 3D printed pegs that slot into holes in the helmet allowing it to open. The original designer suggested adding in bearings to help it swivel easier. 

The problem is that this doesn't really allow for much flexibility when it comes to keeping the face/visor open. The helmet is also quite heavy so it would require something substantial to keep it up. 

Any thoughts on how this could be done?

Damage

Because this isn't made of vacuum formed plastic, it requires priming, painting and sealing. The issue is that whenever the face/visor is opened all the way, the visor connects with the main part of the helmet. This stops the visor, but it also digs into the paint causing flat/dented spots. 

I would like to find a way to limit the face/visor from opening that far with some kind of stop. Any thoughts on how this could be done? 

Thanks everyone!

[kayelbe]

I’m building this same helmet and found the same issue with the visor digging in and denting the main helmet.  Interested in what solutions could be offered.  For now I just try not to open it all the way but obviously mistakes happen.  

[Chopper]

You'd need to add a mechanical stop where it rotates, so that it isn't able to open high enough to hit the dome. I don't know the internals of this helmet well enough to say how to add this feature though.

[ImperialWalker]

4 hours ago, kayelbe said:

I’m building this same helmet and found the same issue with the visor digging in and denting the main helmet.  Interested in what solutions could be offered.  For now I just try not to open it all the way but obviously mistakes happen.  

So far, my thoughts were:

Creating something to slide over the printed pivot peg that would be inserted from the inside of the helmet. It would have a tab on it that would only allow the visor to pivot within a certain range. This idea is nice because it involves minimal damage to the helmet (drilling out the peg hole) and only a few things need to be glued/attached inside the helmet. 

The potential issue is that the peg may not be strong enough to take the torque and it would snap off. 

I've been trying to be careful as well, but I've had it swing open by accident and damage my primer coat. I can only imagine the disaster it would be if it chipped the paint right down to the primer on the final helmet. 

[kayelbe]

Yeah i discovered the issue after my first helmet was done.  (Had to make another because I ruined the paint job on the first to the point it wasn’t salvageable). I can confirm the pegs are not super strong. My first helmet need a new visor as I snapped one off during assembly. After that I printed the visor in two pieces and assembled it on the helmet. Made finishing a pain but it didn’t snap a peg. 

[ImperialWalker]

2 minutes ago, kayelbe said:

Yeah i discovered the issue after my first helmet was done.  (Had to make another because I ruined the paint job on the first to the point it wasn’t salvageable). I can confirm the pegs are not super strong. My first helmet need a new visor as I snapped one off during assembly. After that I printed the visor in two pieces and assembled it on the helmet. Made finishing a pain but it didn’t snap a peg. 

I think the trick is to saw off the pegs so they only stick out a few millimetres past the mounting point for the circle. They don't need to be that long and it requires less flexing of the visor to install it. Same for the keys. I sawed them down just enough that it would keep the visor in place. Now I don't have to pull on everything so much. 

The simple fact of the matter is JS needs to adjust his model so the pivot point is in the correct spot on the inside. That way proper 3M bolts can be used. 

[ImperialWalker]

I've been working on an idea that could work. First let me show you.

The idea is to drill the existing hole in the helmet to 5/16" (7.9mm). This will allow a brass tube to be inserted to give strength to the area. Next, the existing visor peg can be notched to fit into the peg inserted from the other side. This fits into the housing which limits the amount it can rotate. 

In general I like the design, but there are a few things that I wish I could figure out. 

1. I am hoping that it is not too bulky. I have to print a test, but if the reduced area in the temples creates an issue putting on the helmet, then obviously this won't work.

2. I have been trying to figure out a way to integrate a open/close latching system. Having a single solution is preferable to multiple mechanisms, but the problem is space. 

Originally I wanted to use magnets, but the magnet size is limited in every possible configuration making them unlikely to be strong enough to hold the visor shut/open. I then looked at a Ball Latch system, but again, the lack of space is making it difficult to design anything that will work. 

3. The biggest point of potential failure is the original pegs. This design uses the brass tube and a reenforced print, but the original peg can still snap where it attaches to the visor. I could consider removing the peg completely and building up the area, but this eliminates the ability to put in the bearing. 

4. I don't like that while it is simple in some regards, it is kinda complex. Not only from a printing standpoint, but from a function standpoint. It requires drilling the helmet, purchasing a specific brass tube, and the installation could be fiddly.

...

The only other solution I can think of to address the range of motion is to create a print that slides over the original peg that can be glued into place where the bearing would be. Then, attach a stopper to the helmet. This idea is much simpler, but has a few potential failure points and doesn't address keeping the helmet open/closed. 

So, while I'm at a point that a prototype could be printed, I'm not convinced of my own design.

[BikerScout007]

Corrected the post to display the image.  

All you need to do is open the image in a tab, right click and select "Copy Image Address".  Then paste that in your post.  

Carry on!

[kayelbe]

If you create and share the file I’ll be happy to print it and be the Guinea pig. 

[ImperialWalker]

29 minutes ago, kayelbe said:

If you create and share the file I’ll be happy to print it and be the Guinea pig. 

I'll for sure share it. I just want to mess with it a bit more.

[ImperialWalker]

Okay, so I had a chance to contemplate this a bit. I was attempting to figure out how to combine the rotation limitations with some mechanic to keep it open/closed.

I was working on a NASA space helmet project and to keep the visors up they use a rolling peg idea. Basically, as the visor comes up, a rounded section "skips" over a rolling peg, locking it in place. 

You can see in the design below, there are four pegs. Originally I had these hard modelled into the the part, but I was concerned that over time the plastic would wear itself down and it would no longer hold. This isn't a big deal for the centre peg, but because the larger part needs to be secured to the helmet, it would be a pain to replace. So, I opted to make the little pegs removable. This way they could be replaced with more PLA, resin or metal versions when they wear down.

The question of course is whether it will be enough to hold the weight of the visor/mask/electronics? *shrug*

The hole in the centre is for an M2 screw that holds a cap on the end. This keeps the pins in place and keeps hair, cords, and whatever else caught. When the small pegs or main peg needs to be replaced, the cap can be removed. 

Now. Here is my biggest issue. I am not a huge fan of glue connections. The last thing I need to do is make the back conform to the curves inside the helmet. While this will assure it fits nice and has logs of surface area, I am concerned that the torque on these parts will twist them off. Ideally I would have a few screws that would go into the helmet and secured with some heat push threads, but there just isn't room. 

So, the only real options are to hope glue holds, or build a larger base that can accommodate a mechanical connection such as screws. The issue is that this part then gets larger and heavier. 

I am in the process of modelling some internal components such as air vents, greeblies, battery/fan/electronics mounts, etc. So, this could in theory hold these in place with all those components, but for those who aren't interested in all that, it seems like a lot to put into a helmet just to mount this. 

Any thoughts you guys have would be greatly appreciated. I realize this is such an overkill project, but aside from just remodelling the helmet and reprinting it, this is the best I can come up with. 

Of course it still needs to be tested to see if it can even be realistically printed. 

[kayelbe]

It does seem a little over-engineered, lol.  I took your earlier design and modeled a VERY basic version in TinkerCAD that I then printed.  Because of shrinkage or print settings (I’m a relative noob to 3D modeling/printing) it wouldn’t work with brass tubing.    But, it will work for it’s intended purpose. Even with my Altman bucket I rarely left it open.  I just want something to keep it from opening too far as we discussed.  I’ll add a pic later for those interested. 

[ImperialWalker]

2 minutes ago, kayelbe said:

It does seem a little over-engineered, lol.  I took your earlier design and modeled a VERY basic version in TinkerCAD that I then printed.  Because of shrinkage or print settings (I’m a relative noob to 3D modeling/printing) it wouldn’t work with brass tubing.    But, it will work for it’s intended purpose. Even with my Altman bucket I rarely left it open.  I just want something to keep it from opening too far as we discussed.  I’ll add a pic later for those interested. 

Cool! I would like to see it. I have the parts printing right now, so I'll see what happens. Hopefully it works and keeps it open/closed, but worst case it should still keep it from rotating too much. Since you've had success, I have hopes it should work. 

[kayelbe]

Here's a pic of the printed pieces.  I haven't put them in permanently yet, but preliminary testing proved the concept will work in keeping the opening limited as far as I want it to.

 

[ImperialWalker]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:02 AM, kayelbe said:

Here's a pic of the printed pieces.  I haven't put them in permanently yet, but preliminary testing proved the concept will work in keeping the opening limited as far as I want it to.

 

What diameter did you end up making yours? Did you have to drill out the helmet?

[kayelbe]

The base disc is 28mm. The tube is about 11/32 od.  The id is the same as the visor peg. I must have mis-measured so the tube doesn’t fit the brass tube I bought. I did drill the helmet out to fit the brass which happens to be just about right for the tube. I don’t expect much wear so I’m gonna forgo the brass bushing for now.