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Possible Recaster Alert (copying MC Scout kit)


MonCal

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I was informed by members of the detachment that my scout kit may have been copied.

I laid out one of our kits in the same configuration as the suspect kit and other than the belt piece, it definitely looks like my kit.

You might have to wait for the photos to load.  For some reason my host is being really slow.

This first photo shows the comparison of the two kits.  The kit on the red background is from "Armour Factory Props" and the other kit is mine (MC / FAC):

Image:

Bikerscout_recast_Possibility_01sm.jpg

This next image is their facebook page:

Image:

Armour_Factory_recast_01sm.jpg

This is the message I posted on their page, with no response so far:

Hello,
I am curious to know the history and lineage of your bikerscout kit.  It looks ... well ... exactly like my kit that I sculpted in 2005 and that I still manufacture.  I recently received a heads up from the folks in the bikerscout detachment, saying there is a "new" kit out there that looks exactly like mine. 

My forum name (on prop forums, 501st, Rebel Legion, etc.) is MonCal and many people refer to my kits as "MC" kits.  

I am attaching a comparison photo that has a photo of your kit on the red background and a photo of my kit, that I placed in the same configuration.  The only piece that I can say for certain isn't copied is the belt.  I know my sculpts and I know what is "wrong" with them and I can see those tells in the photo.  Of course in person comparisons would be better, which if your kit is recast from my kit, there would likely be a large number of tells.  

If you did recast my kit, I would like to kindly ask that you immediately cease and desist production of this design, remove all traces of it from your posession, and sculpt your own kit based on photos from the internet, like I did when I put my heart and sole into creating my kit over the course of the year 2005.  

I will allow some time for a response and then I will begin informing the public via forums, my facebook pages, and other outlets, which will not be too difficult as the costuming community is fairly tight.  You will then be labeled as a recaster in the communities, which is not a good thing.


Thanks for looking.
Cal


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Looks recast to me. Sorry to see this.


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Thanks everyone.

It definitely does suck :( 

Like I have time to deal with more stuff.  

I am so tired of having to fight for everything, especially when it is either already mine or I am legitimately entitled to it.

Please help spread the word.


Thanks for looking!
Cal

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yeah,  looks close to yours

and while  i was digging through his pics on his page ... i seen a familiar scout helmet.

and that scout helmet looks an awful like cucblacks helmet, the back raised section really gives it away  .. hhmmmm, wonder if its him?


heres the 2 helmets.

the white is what we know is cucblacks(old version, i believe, he has updated his helmet recently),  the grey is this armour factory props ... look at the ear ridge/raised section and the vents area on the back.  very similar.

 

oddly similar ... recast, cucblack ? ? ?


 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I like how they call them “Soldiers”. I’m sure they will be on eBay in no time if they aren’t already. I feel bad for you, just trying to make quality stuff and someone swipes it.


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I agree it does look like your kit, they have one difference and that is the belt, they have made the design boxes smaller in width maybe to say it is different? 

Otherwise the rest looks like its been  recasted, as they don't look as sharp. 

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It is certainly a bummer.

I reached out to the C.O. of the Spanish Garrison and he wondered if this detachment could do anything, blacklist, etc.

this is our conversation so far:

..............................................................................................

From me:

Hello Javier,

 
I hope this message finds you doing well.
 
The reason I am contacting you is because I believe there might be someone in your garrison's area who is offering copies of an armor kit that I created.
 
Now, I realize the 501st does not get involved with vendor relations and I respect that.  To be honest I am not sure what to do and / or if you or your garrison could even offer any sort of help with regard to the matter.  Members of my garrison (Mountain Garrison) have suggested that I reach out to the Spanish Garrison just in case.
 
I have a thread on the forums, where I have posted the maker and information here:
 
 
Thank you very much for your time and any advice or assistance you might be able to provide.
 
Sincerely,
Cal 

............................................................................................

From Javier:

Hi Cal,

 
Indeed there are members of the Spanish Garrison involved with Armour Factory Props, and I have to say it's really disappointing to see they are doing recast of your works...
 
As you know, I was your costumer last year for a AT-AT Commander kit and I'm very gratefull foy your work and your costumer attention.
 
Yes, we cannot do anything at 501st level, but may be you can talk to the Pathfinder detachment to point that Armour Factory Props Biker is a recast. I know there're some detachments with black list of vendor who are doing recast of others work.
 
I'm really sorry you have to deal with this kind of actions. In my name and on behalf of the Spanish Garrison I want to apologize...
 
Hope you can solve this, and I'm sorry for can't do anything more...
 
If I can do anything more, please let me know.
 
 
Kind regards
 
Javier Cazallas

..............................................................................................

From me:

Hi Javier,

Thank you for the message and for the supporting words.

The bikerscout detachment is aware.  In fact, the detachment leader is the one who brought it to my attention.  They noticed that their kit looked like mine right away.  

Would it possible to alert your garrison and let the membership know that while the 501st cannot take any official action, it is heavily frowned upon in the hobby and that new makers really should not copy another artist's work?

Thank you again and take care,
Cal

..............................................................................................

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The spanish GCO noted that some detachments blacklist vendors after recasting. I don't know which detachments that are, but maybe it's worth checking out how they dealt with such situations.

Is blacklisting an option?

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6 hours ago, MonCal said:

It seems like it could be an option.  

The Blizzard Force has a pinned "Known Recasters" thread in the vendor area.

Interesting idea, Cal. We also just found another recaster from Poland that looks like he did a copy of the Strider/CFO kit.  

My only concern would be giving these recasters free advertising for people who want to save money by buying recast armor. 

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That could be adressed by the way the bad guys are listed.


If there's a list of vendors that have been blacklisted or banned without making a clear distinction of the reasons in that list itself.
Instead the list starts with some sort of disclaimer like this:


"the following vendors/traders are blacklisted or banned by this detachment or a fellow 501st group for a number of possible reasons, including (but not limited to) unethical behaviour towards customers, unethical behavior towards fellow vendors, fraud, not providing promised goods, breaking contracts.. etc"

-Luke
-Leia
-Solo & Pets

Someone could still go around the forum and find out the reason why the blacklisting occured, but it would require more research and time to contemplate.
If i was looking for a smuggler, i wouldn't get a good answer in this list

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Interesting idea.

It is certainly a drag when the knowledge of thieves sort of disappears over time or gets swept aside.  With being in the hobby for 20 years now, I've seen several instances where the knowledge of a "bad guy" was pretty well known for a couple of years but then it fades away.  This allows the "bad guy" to actually keep going, almost as if ignoring it perpetuates and even sort of supports it.

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Here's some thoughts

We can't ban armor as a Detachment.  We can only advise the LMOs and GMLs and hope they play along.  We just don't have that authority. All of us play in the gray area of LFL's IP and none of us really have the right to enforce their copyrights.  We can prevent Vendors from selling on our forums, but recasters don't come here to sell anyway.  

Whereas the real armor makers out there (like Cal) are out in the open and easy to find (as well as listed on our approved Vendors list), the recasters take a bit more work.  You have to scout Ebay or etsy to find these scoundrels.  I fear putting them out in the open is going to make it easier for less scrupulous folks to buy from them.  

Real talk.... the vast majority of the folks that come onto this forum are from English speaking countries or members that have really good working knowledge of English.   I don't see a lot of recast armor pop up on the WIPs or the trooping logs of our active members.   But do we have that kind of influence in say.... South America?  Eastern Europe?  The Middle East?   I'd like to think so, but my guess is most of these recasters are selling to folks outside of the Detachment's area of influence.  So people buying this stuff aren't coming here for advice anyway.  All we would be doing is letting the people that do come here know there are cheaper alternatives out there, as long as they swallow their ethics.

We found out about the folks that recast Cal's armor, because someone came on the boards and asked if it was approvable.  This is a tough question.  The answer, unfortunately, is yes.  The armor met the requirements for basic as stipulated in the CRL.  But we let the OP know it was recast and other options were available.  Did that person pick someone else or go with the recaster?  We have no idea and will probably never know.  How many more people found out this recaster existed because of that post?  How many more sales did they get?  Again... we don't know.  

I'll make inquiries and see how other DLs handle this sort of thing.  But my instinct is to give recasters no advertising at all -- even negative advertising.  

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