RS Biker Scout Prototype

[RS Prop Masters]

Hi guys. OK, we have a theory here that research gets you so far, but then the experts know best. When we start creating a costume we usually search out the opinions of the guys that matter. So, here is our second prototype. We are still working on the strapping, this is much better than the nylon stuff we had as a placeholder previously, but to us it looks like the strapping should be a woven elastic, what is the general consensus on this?

We are working up the soft parts to work exactly as they should with this screen accurate armour. I am thinking the vest neckline should be higher so thats noted already. Also, the greeblies are not the finished items they are all just placeholders. The pouches we think are also an issue, we would like them a little more square. 

Please take a look and see what you think. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dart]

2 hours ago, RS Prop Masters said:

Hi guys. OK, we have a theory here that research gets you so far, but then the experts know best. When we start creating a costume we usually search out the opinions of the guys that matter. So, here is our second prototype. We are still working on the strapping, this is much better than the nylon stuff we had as a placeholder previously, but to us it looks like the strapping should be a woven elastic, what is the general consensus on this?

We are working up the soft parts to work exactly as they should with this screen accurate armour. I am thinking the vest neckline should be higher so thats noted already. Also, the greeblies are not the finished items they are all just placeholders. The pouches we think are also an issue, we would like them a little more square. 

Please take a look and see what you think.

Overall, it looks good. But there's a few things I notice right away:

1. You need the upper strap on the kneepad (usually about 1/2" wide).

2. The 1.5" webbing on the bottom of the chest/back connection and the hip boxes is the same. It's not elastic, but a woven cotton canvas webbing.

3. Pouches should be 6" high x 5" wide x 2" deep. The flap at the top of the pouch should be 2" x 5".

4. If you folks are making it all, be sure to add some stirrups at the bottom of the pant legs to keep those neatly tucked in.

5. The cod looks a bit too snug at the bottom. Ideally, it does not wrap under the crotch, but stops at the bottom. You can either loosen the strap or pull up the cod.

6. The thigh straps could be a bit more snug on the leg. They shouldn't drape when worn. Ideally, they should be just a bit snug and stretch horizontally across the side of the thigh.

7. You may also want to extend the riding patch farther out across the thigh, but it's hard to tell from the angle you've got it.

Please note, I've taken all measurements from our CRL: http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TB_Scout_trooper

[Retrofire]

Dart is right on point with his input. As to your question regarding strapping the bottom of the shoulder bells, knees, forearm, and biceps are all connected using various widths of woven elastic. In some builds the Scouts add Velcro to these parts and the flight suit to keep them in place. The belt is woven nylon webbing with a Velcro closure. I also have stirrups built into my flight suit to keep the legs tight so it doesn’t bunch above/below the knees.

[Chopper]

From some of your images on instagram, I noticed that you made it so the parachute buckles on the belt could be opened. They should not be functional. In the film, the straps looped behind the buckles as one piece.

Also, please note that the upper strap on the knee armor, as mentioned by Dart, is secured with a 1/8" diameter rivet.

 

[RS Prop Masters]

Thanks Andry and you Pete.

 

1. You need the upper strap on the kneepad (usually about 1/2" wide) - yes, we did know and chat about this, it's something I was aware off. I did think it was narrow than half an inch though. 

2. The 1.5" webbing on the bottom of the chest/back connection and the hip boxes is the same. It's not elastic, but a woven cotton canvas webbing. - This is the webbing I think could be a thick or heavy duty elastic webbing. It has a small amount of give, but not much, the elastic in the description is misleading. We have used a heavy duty cotton for the belt straps, I think its too heavy. 

3. Pouches should be 6" high x 5" wide x 2" deep. The flap at the top of the pouch should be 2" x 5" are these sizes screen accurate, or established norms? What I mean is do we have images of the pouches off the costume? I am considering the flap returning into the inside of the Cumberland/belt. In a similar way they do on the ROTJ Boba Fett. Also, is there any evidence to support the cummerbund being two parts. Looking at the Star Wars Costumes book it looks like to could be a separate part?

4. If you folks are making it all, be sure to add some stirrups at the bottom of the pant legs to keep those neatly tucked in. - noted. The suit looks a little more tailored than these images, the suit is a size bigger than our model.

5. The cod looks a bit too snug at the bottom. Ideally, it does not wrap under the crotch, but stops at the bottom. You can either loosen the strap or pull up the cod. - I am also looking at this when reviewing the images. I'll see what we come up with. 

6. The thigh straps could be a bit more snug on the leg. They shouldn't drape when worn. Ideally, they should be just a bit snug and stretch horizontally across the side of the thigh. - noted. 

7. You may also want to extend the riding patch farther out across the thigh, but it's hard to tell from the angle you've got it. - again noted, looking at that. 

Here is that image of the cummerbund.

[Dart]

1 hour ago, RS Prop Masters said:

Thanks Andry and you Pete.

 

1. You need the upper strap on the kneepad (usually about 1/2" wide) - yes, we did know and chat about this, it's something I was aware off. I did think it was narrow than half an inch though. 

2. The 1.5" webbing on the bottom of the chest/back connection and the hip boxes is the same. It's not elastic, but a woven cotton canvas webbing. - This is the webbing I think could be a thick or heavy duty elastic webbing. It has a small amount of give, but not much, the elastic in the description is misleading. We have used a heavy duty cotton for the belt straps, I think its too heavy. 

3. Pouches should be 6" high x 5" wide x 2" deep. The flap at the top of the pouch should be 2" x 5" are these sizes screen accurate, or established norms? What I mean is do we have images of the pouches off the costume? I am considering the flap returning into the inside of the Cumberland/belt. In a similar way they do on the ROTJ Boba Fett. Also, is there any evidence to support the cummerbund being two parts. Looking at the Star Wars Costumes book it looks like to could be a separate part?

4. If you folks are making it all, be sure to add some stirrups at the bottom of the pant legs to keep those neatly tucked in. - noted. The suit looks a little more tailored than these images, the suit is a size bigger than our model.

5. The cod looks a bit too snug at the bottom. Ideally, it does not wrap under the crotch, but stops at the bottom. You can either loosen the strap or pull up the cod. - I am also looking at this when reviewing the images. I'll see what we come up with. 

6. The thigh straps could be a bit more snug on the leg. They shouldn't drape when worn. Ideally, they should be just a bit snug and stretch horizontally across the side of the thigh. - noted. 

7. You may also want to extend the riding patch farther out across the thigh, but it's hard to tell from the angle you've got it. - again noted, looking at that. 

Here is that image of the cummerbund.

In regard to the cotton webbing, you won't want to use the same type of webbing that you'd find on a belt (3mm+). Something thinner will do and will hang more naturally.

The upper knee strap shouldn't be less than 1/2". I seem to recall us debating the width back in 2011, and it just didn't look right if it was less than that.

The pouch measurement is based off the eFX Scout costume that appeared at Celebration Orlando. The soft parts were said to have been patterned after ones that were in the archives, and eFX was in there often. We're considering the measurements screen accurate. And the flaps both return to the middle.

Also confirmed by Gino from eFX, the cod and cummerbund are 2 separate pieces. Apparently, the original method of fastening was that the cod was attached to the flak vest and the 'bund was worn over that. Our Lancer spec requires that the look of 2 pieces is achieved, but the connection method can vary (either sewn as a separate piece to the 'bund, undersuit, or attached to the flak vest). In your attached image, you can actually see the line right above the belt between the two pieces. Also, in terms of comfort, it's soooo much more comfy to have the 'bund as a separate piece. I have that setup and it's much easier to move than when the cod is attached to the 'bund.

 

 

[RS Prop Masters]

OK, the two part thing makes sense. Is there any evidence to disprove that the Cumberland is not sew or part of the vest. I mean, the vest is black and white? I am having difficulty in understanding what holds the Cumberland area up. 

 

 

[Aliaz]

6 minutes ago, RS Prop Masters said:

OK, the two part thing makes sense. Is there any evidence to disprove that the Cumberland is not sew or part of the vest. I mean, the vest is black and white? I am having difficulty in understanding what holds the Cumberland area up. 

 

 

Different methods can be used. Velcroed to the vest, rivets, some use supenders. For my part the Chest/back armor when worn keeps my bund in place well enough. Most pictures I've seen it's pretty clear the bund is separate, from the way it sags/drops.

And from a making things for customers viewpoint, I think sizing would be much easier if the bund is seperate and can be adjusted independently from the vest.

[BikerScout007]

I do my codpiece like this:  sewn to the bottom of the vest
 

[RS Prop Masters]

It's really interesting to read the different methods. From my time other forums I know there are behind the scenes images of many of the costumes, do any images exist of the Scout? 

[Dart]

1 hour ago, Aliaz said:

Different methods can be used. Velcroed to the vest, rivets, some use supenders. For my part the Chest/back armor when worn keeps my bund in place well enough. Most pictures I've seen it's pretty clear the bund is separate, from the way it sags/drops.

And from a making things for customers viewpoint, I think sizing would be much easier if the bund is seperate and can be adjusted independently from the vest.

To add to the above, when a 'bund is created, it shouldn't be loose but should be well fitted to the midsection of the scout. I have a small tab at the top centre of my 'bund that corresponds to some velcro on the inside of my armour. Helps prevent showing any of the black flak vest in between the bottom of the chest and the top of the 'bund.

As far as the behind-the-scenes photos, I'm not sure there's much. What makes the Scout a real challenge is that there hasn't been the same level of info available as for other costumes.

[BikerScout007]

10 minutes ago, RS Prop Masters said:

It's really interesting to read the different methods. From my time other forums I know there are behind the scenes images of many of the costumes, do any images exist of the Scout? 

Hey Rob!

We met briefly at Celebration Orlando last year.  I was hanging around after the event on Sunday with Gino, watching him break down his displays so I could learn whatever I could from the master.

I agree with everything Dart has said above.  He's given some great advice.  I would definitely reduce the size of the pouches.  Oversized pouches have been a bugbear of mine and we have added the 6x5x2 requirement to our CRL for Level 2 status.  

And adding to what Dart said above, behind-the-scenes Scout photos have been few and far between.   I'm pretty sure a Scout costume has never fallen into private hands and this explains why the soft goods have been such a mystery.   But we've managed to figure out quite a bit.   I'll post some more reference photos below, but for a start, take a look at these from the Smithsonian exhibit in 1997:
 

 

[RS Prop Masters]

I hear that Dart. The down side to that is it leaves it open to speculation and being lead by previous mistakes. I am really interested in how the originals were put together over what can work for costuming, as one can help the other maybe. 

 

I am studying all the images I can get of the suit. Loving this image right now. Seems to show something going on thats interesting. I can see the webbing, which I am sure is that webbing with a small percentage of elastic seemingly attached to the back armour then feeding through the slots that are cut passing through the front armour, returning and then having a hook and loop closure. Based on the Snowtrooper strapping maybe the strap has a single rivet hidden by the hump to hold it in place. 

I can also see some other kind of white strap in there which I can only assume is something to do with the Cumberland?

 

 

[RS Prop Masters]

Hi Mickey, yes I remember meeting you. Good to meet again in the cyber world

It's great to scrutinise the costume as much as we can. Iv'e not had a lot of info from Gino on this, he not one for sharing much, especially when we are kinda stepping on his toes with this. 

 

 

[RS Prop Masters]

Hey Mickey, re the over size pouches......I have to confess when the new Cumberland was sewn we did not have pouches to match so I grabbed some Fett ones, hence them being wrong here. But it's only something you guys would really take issue with at this point. Other than the size I liked the colour and contrast with the Cumberland. 

[BikerScout007]

11 minutes ago, RS Prop Masters said:

I am studying all the images I can get of the suit. Loving this image right now. Seems to show something going on thats interesting. I can see the webbing, which I am sure is that webbing with a small percentage of elastic seemingly attached to the back armour then feeding through the slots that are cut passing through the front armour, returning and then having a hook and loop closure. Based on the Snowtrooper strapping maybe the strap has a single rivet hidden by the hump to hold it in place. 

I can also see some other kind of white strap in there which I can only assume is something to do with the Cumberland?

 

Yeah I've noticed that return on the armor strap in another photo.  You can see the stitching where it is sewn down.  I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

As for that "white strap" -- that is something Chef and I were discussing a few years back.  You can see it in these two photos and we definitely thought it had something to do with holding up the cummerbund.  "David Hague" has the white strap showing right next to his helmet, and the Rebel in Scout disguise from ROTJ you can see it above his right pouch.

 

[RS Prop Masters]

Thats really interesting and plays into the idea that if the Cumberland is not attached to the vest that the pouches could flap over the Cumberland itself. Maybe there is an inner "belt" made of white webbing that holds it up. 

[BikerScout007]

10 minutes ago, RS Prop Masters said:

Thats really interesting and plays into the idea that if the Cumberland is not attached to the vest that the pouches could flap over the Cumberland itself. Maybe there is an inner "belt" made of white webbing that holds it up. 

I've thought something similar!   That way the production team could make a uniform size cummerbund that was adjustable to stunt guys of different sizes