Patrol Trooper CRL design group

[BikerScout007]

I do but I'm not sure how to start a new entry

[Reideemer]

Alright. Lets get this thing  reviewed one last time before we pass it up to the LMO team on the wiki.  If possible, can we blow up the images a little in order to show more specifically what we are calling out as requirements on the slightly harder to see areas, as well as get a bit of clarity/modification on the sections below...

These are just a few of my observations.  Please feel free to comment on agree/disagreements.

Helmet
- It says two toned, but then mentions 3 color requirements
- Remove the extra words from the trapezoid explanation and just stick with the trapezoids on the dome...
- Combine the outline with the previous block, or explain in the line what is being outlined
- Do we know for a fact that the lens is only green, or are we willing to throw in a black/green option similar to other CRLs, and make the "green only" a lvl 2+?
- When looking at the trim going back to the trapezoids, are we looking at it just for length, or for the slant of the cut as well so it looks more uniform? possibly a lvl 2+ addition to consider...
- Ear construction material specifics may need to be broadened for lvl 1, and rivets or other more specific construction methods be upgraded to lvl 2+

Pants
- Consider adding that the pants be "neatly pressed" to the appearance.  It is becoming a hot-ticket issue with many of the cloth costume items that they are starting to look more and more like they have been sitting in someones car all bunched up and nasty.  "Neatly pressed" requires a bit more care in making a good presentation, and makes the member accountable.  Also, think about biker cops in RL.  They tend to look pretty clean cut, and not excessively baggy/trashy.

I would consider taking away the "slightly weathered" context from the armor descriptions entirely.  It leaves a lot of room for abuse/misinterpretation.

Handplates
- Consider adding that over-palm elastic strapping methods (such as what many do with TK handplates) are not permitted

Chest Armor
- Consider adding how many square segments there are on the chest near the green greeblie.
- Is the oblong black circle supposed to be on the wearers left or right? The CRL says on the right, but it is clearly on the wearers left in the attached image.
- Remove the .5 inch requirement or have it bumped to lvl 2+
- Do the buckles need to be functional? Please indicate this in the CRL, and if so, consider adding it to lvl 2+

Ab front
- Remove "shall" and replace it with something more generous in measurement.  "Shall" indicates a specific exact measurement.  If we are looking for exact, it will need to be lvl 2+.
- Insert "approximately"  before the 10 diagonal stripes.  Consider adding "evenly spaced"

Ab back
- The front has an approximate measurement of how far down it is supposed to go.  Consider adding something similar for the back plate over the Ab rear.

Backplate
- I would consider making the "flush sides" of the chest and back plate to be a lvl 2+ requirement.  This will allow people to adjust the size of the chest plate to be tighter or more lose depending on body size/build type.
- Does the backing of any of the greeblies need to be solid and painted, or can they be left open and meshed over similar to air vents on helmets?
- Same questions as before...do the buckles need to be functional?

Belt
- Can the boxes be functional, or sealed?
- Remove the "cell phone case" reference.  We will need to find a better way to describe this...possibly just approximate dimensions of the box itself.

Boots
- Consider making the painted toe portion a lvl 2+ requirement considering there is supposed to be an armor segment covering it anyway
- Make the spanish cut tops lvl2+ (good call!)

Baton
- I would give the baton the option of being metal or another material.  (Several events will not permit a metal baton to be carried as a prop as it would still technically be considered a real weapon, and many of our members work to avoid that interpretation)

[dodger0729]

I think all looks good except taking out slightly weathering. I would maybe change it to "minimal weathering" or "light weathering". But the weathering should be there. Similar to how the scouts I have seen are either clean or dirty. None of the references to the patrol trooper are super clean. Even the prop at Lucasfilm has that black almost exhaust like weathering. I think the soft goods wouldn't be weathered because they would need to be cleaned constantly. But the armor would have been weathered. Especially on a dirty planet like Corellia which is filled with exhaust ports, rain, and grime.

[BikerScout007]

The weathering language was taken (stolen?) directly from our Biker Scout CRL.  I assumed if it was good enough for that, it would be good enough for this.  I was thinking we would make weathering a Level 2 requirement, but Level 1 would be optional.  Thus the "and/or"

[BikerScout007]

I have edited the main post to include all the images that Denis has provided.   They images are clickable and will blow up to a bigger size when you do so.

[BikerScout007]

Okay Chris I made most of the changes you suggested.  Please see the very first post in this thread for the updated CRL.   Just a few comments and questions

Quote

If possible, can we blow up the images a little in order to show more specifically what we are calling out as requirements on the slightly harder to see areas, as well as get a bit of clarity/modification on the sections below...

All the images can be blown up by clicking on them.  Sorry I didn't mention that before

Quote

Do we know for a fact that the lens is only green, or are we willing to throw in a black/green option similar to other CRLs, and make the "green only" a lvl 2+?
- When looking at the trim going back to the trapezoids, are we looking at it just for length, or for the slant of the cut as well so it looks more uniform? possibly a lvl 2+ addition to consider...
- Ear construction material specifics may need to be broadened for lvl 1, and rivets or other more specific construction methods be upgraded to lvl 2+

Yes we do.  The picture of the helmet at Lucasfilm clearly shows the lenses are green.   On the first page of this thread you can see the pics.  As for trim, it was just on there for length.  

TK helmets aren't my speciality so if you have some suggestions on the rivets, please let me know.

Quote

I would consider taking away the "slightly weathered" context from the armor descriptions entirely.  It leaves a lot of room for abuse/misinterpretation.

This language was taken verbatim from our Scout Trooper CRL.   It hasn't proven to be problematic so far, and I like the CRLs to have commonalities.  My thought is for weathering to be optional for Level 1 and mandatory for Level 2.

Quote

Consider adding how many square segments there are on the chest near the green greeblie.
- Is the oblong black circle supposed to be on the wearers left or right? The CRL says on the right, but it is clearly on the wearers left in the attached image.
- Remove the .5 inch requirement or have it bumped to lvl 2+
- Do the buckles need to be functional? Please indicate this in the CRL, and if so, consider adding it to lvl 2+

Not sure what you mean by the square segments.  Do you have a suggestion for that?

Sorry, I fixed that mistake, good catch

Done

I would say no, they are just decorative, as on the Shoretrooper.   

Quote

Ab front
- Remove "shall" and replace it with something more generous in measurement.  "Shall" indicates a specific exact measurement.  If we are looking for exact, it will need to be lvl 2+.
- Insert "approximately"  before the 10 diagonal stripes.  Consider adding "evenly spaced"

Ab back
- The front has an approximate measurement of how far down it is supposed to go.  Consider adding something similar for the back plate over the Ab rear.

Done.   

The Ab back language was taken directly from the Death Trooper, as the pieces are the same.   I've added in some fitment language.   Honestly this whole thing should be combined into just "Ab armor" as it seems to be just one piece.  

Quote

Backplate
- I would consider making the "flush sides" of the chest and back plate to be a lvl 2+ requirement.  This will allow people to adjust the size of the chest plate to be tighter or more lose depending on body size/build type.
- Does the backing of any of the greeblies need to be solid and painted, or can they be left open and meshed over similar to air vents on helmets?
- Same questions as before...do the buckles need to be functional?

This description was taken verbatim from the Shoretrooper CRL, as the two pieces are identical.  I only changed the colors.  But I did move the "flush sides" to Level 2 consideration.  For the sake of uniformity, I'd say we just leave it as is.   That way we don't have Shoretroopers and Patrol Troopers with different standards.

Quote

Belt
- Can the boxes be functional, or sealed?
- Remove the "cell phone case" reference.  We will need to find a better way to describe this...possibly just approximate dimensions of the box itself.

I'd say sealed or functional is fine.  As we don't see them open in the film.

Done.  Although the thing does look like a cellphone haha.   I just put in approximate size based on.....my cellphone case

Quote

Boots
- Consider making the painted toe portion a lvl 2+ requirement considering there is supposed to be an armor segment covering it anyway

The toe area of the boot needs to be painted (or wrapped) white.   There is no armor piece over the toe, so the black would be exposed otherwise.  The only armor is the bit around the heel and the "dogbone"

Quote

Baton
- I would give the baton the option of being metal or another material.  (Several events will not permit a metal baton to be carried as a prop as it would still technically be considered a real weapon, and many of our members work to avoid that interpretation)

Great idea!  Done.

[Reideemer]

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

The picture of the helmet at Lucasfilm clearly shows the lenses are green.   On the first page of this thread you can see the pics.  As for trim, it was just on there for length.  

TK helmets aren't my speciality so if you have some suggestions on the rivets, please let me know.

I must have missed that earlier on in the thread. No worries!

They use screws for mounting.  I will try and get some pics of mine and upload it. In the mean time...

https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/29238-my-helmet-ear-tutorial/

 

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

Quote

I would consider taking away the "slightly weathered" context from the armor descriptions entirely.  It leaves a lot of room for abuse/misinterpretation.

This language was taken verbatim from our Scout Trooper CRL.   It hasn't proven to be problematic so far, and I like the CRLs to have commonalities.  My thought is for weathering to be optional for Level 1 and mandatory for Level 2.

by removing it from lvl completely and leaving it under a lvl 2 requirement, you effectively take away the GML ability to shoot it down altogether, and force them to refer to either the detachment or the LMO for approval.  GMLs are only authorized to approve lvl 1.  This will allow the DL and LMO to make this call, and not a GML with a potential grudge

 

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

Quote

Consider adding how many square segments there are on the chest near the green greeblie.
- Is the oblong black circle supposed to be on the wearers left or right? The CRL says on the right, but it is clearly on the wearers left in the attached image.
- Remove the .5 inch requirement or have it bumped to lvl 2+
- Do the buckles need to be functional? Please indicate this in the CRL, and if so, consider adding it to lvl 2+

Not sure what you mean by the square segments.  Do you have a suggestion for that?

the buttons in the same black section as the green button.  Just a little blurp about how many there should be

 

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

Quote

Ab back
- The front has an approximate measurement of how far down it is supposed to go.  Consider adding something similar for the back plate over the Ab rear.

Done.   

The Ab back language was taken directly from the Death Trooper, as the pieces are the same.   I've added in some fitment language.   Honestly this whole thing should be combined into just "Ab armor" as it seems to be just one piece.  

Be careful pulling from CRLs from other detachments. It can cause a false sense of security with applicants who are following similar patterns when a different requirement pops up between the two CRLs. As an example, look at the JRS Reserve Tie pilot, and the IOC Bridge crew.  There are almost no differences, but if you try to apply with the wrong gloves, you could be in trouble and be denied.  That being said, I agree that this particular requirement can probably stay as it is with the DT CRL.

 

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

Quote

Backplate
- I would consider making the "flush sides" of the chest and back plate to be a lvl 2+ requirement.  This will allow people to adjust the size of the chest plate to be tighter or more lose depending on body size/build type.
- Does the backing of any of the greeblies need to be solid and painted, or can they be left open and meshed over similar to air vents on helmets?
- Same questions as before...do the buckles need to be functional?

This description was taken verbatim from the Shoretrooper CRL, as the two pieces are identical.  I only changed the colors.  But I did move the "flush sides" to Level 2 consideration.  For the sake of uniformity, I'd say we just leave it as is.   That way we don't have Shoretroopers and Patrol Troopers with different standards.

I agree completely. Leave it as is to prevent problems.

 

10 hours ago, BikerScout007 said:

Quote

Boots
- Consider making the painted toe portion a lvl 2+ requirement considering there is supposed to be an armor segment covering it anyway

The toe area of the boot needs to be painted (or wrapped) white.   There is no armor piece over the toe, so the black would be exposed otherwise.  The only armor is the bit around the heel and the "dogbone"

Interesting...Maybe the picture referenced has the same sort of wrap on it. My biggest concern with this is going to be bringing those boots to a shine.  I can tell you from personal experience, you don't wear those kind of boots in the military and NOT make them shine and show your reflection! 

 

All in all, good work and great ideas!  The Wiki has been updated to have a slot for a patrol trooper, so please start those uploads!

[BikerScout007]

4 minutes ago, Reideemer said:

All in all, good work and great ideas!  The Wiki has been updated to have a slot for a patrol trooper, so please start those uploads!

Well do, Chris.  Thanks so much for the guidance!   

[BikerScout007]

Okay Patrol Trooper fans, we finally have a CRL page in the Database!

http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TB_Patrol_trooper

The CRL text is up.  The pictures are all placeholders for now.  I will get those updated this weekend.  I want to thank Denis for doing the hard work of carefully photographing each and every piece AND sending them to me with the backgrounds already removed

As for the designation, the Legion has it as "TB" for now.  I will ask for "PT" but the Legion is not always keen on creating new designations.  Particularly in this case where there is such a strong resemblance to the Biker Scout.  

EDIT:  I should note this is all a work in progress and everything in there is subject to change!

[FIVE]

13 minutes ago, BikerScout007 said:

Okay Patrol Trooper fans, we finally have a CRL page in the Database!

http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TB_Patrol_trooper

The CRL text is up.  The pictures are all placeholders for now.  I will get those updated this weekend.  I want to thank Denis for doing the hard work of carefully photographing each and every piece AND sending them to me with the backgrounds already removed

As for the designation, the Legion has it as "TB" for now.  I will ask for "PT" but the Legion is not always keen on creating new designations.  Particularly in this case where there is such a strong resemblance to the Biker Scout.  

EDIT:  I should note this is all a work in progress and everything in there is subject to change!

WOO HOO!!!!

Thank you ALL for working so hard on this! 

[BikerScout007]

31 minutes ago, Bluey said:

WOO HOO!!!!

Thank you ALL for working so hard on this! 

Thanks for all your support, man.  We are getting SO close. 

[Tjeccles]

Good job everyone. Looking forward seeing it finished.

[Grunt]

Nice!!

[Reideemer]

Gents let's be careful here...this CRL has NOT been grown lit yet, and needs to be maintained on the unofficial wiki, not the live "showroom floor" until approved by the LMO team.  Additionally, please refrain from sharing this as an approved reference until given the final go ahead from the head LMO, Todd.

If you have any questions, please let me know

[762s]

congrats all!

[Retrofire]

Brilliant job to everyone engaged in this and doubly for getting the LMO engaged ASAP. Looking forward to seeing this amazing addition to the Pathfinders go live. Great job Scouts!

[Reideemer]

16 minutes ago, Retrofire said:

Brilliant job to everyone engaged in this and doubly for getting the LMO engaged ASAP. Looking forward to seeing this amazing addition to the Pathfinders go live. Great job Scouts!

Speaking of lvl 2 reviews, we need to start locking down what we want those lvl 2+ requirements will be so we can get this sucker green lit!  Do we have anything new we want to add or modify that should be discussed?

[BikerScout007]

37 minutes ago, Reideemer said:

Speaking of lvl 2 reviews, we need to start locking down what we want those lvl 2+ requirements will be so we can get this sucker green lit!  Do we have anything new we want to add or modify that should be discussed?

We didn't roll out a Level 2 for the Shoretrooper until almost a year later and we had WAY more sources for that than we do for this.   I would rather focus on getting Level 1 up and running and tackle a Level 2 later on down the road.  We also need to give the prop makers time and familiarity with the costume so they are making the best stuff possible.  

[Spiel]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:14 AM, Reideemer said:

Speaking of lvl 2 reviews, we need to start locking down what we want those lvl 2+ requirements will be so we can get this sucker green lit!  Do we have anything new we want to add or modify that should be discussed?

There is a bunch of small details in this build, which needs more attention. 

I tried to compose my thoughts in one list. 

Pls, feel free to correct and add!

 

Suggestions for Lvl2 details.

Helmet
- There is a thin groove rounding every gray trap.
- The rear traps have 13 vertical thin grooves, painted black.
- There are 12 vent holes on cheeks. Vents are not cut, painted white inside.
- There are 2 "teeth": one on each side of the helmet, between the blast-shield and the visor-glass.
- Main aerator module made same as DeathTrooper helmet. It has 9 greeblies on the top, center greeblie is thicker than the rest.
- Helmet has rubber brow line and rubber bottom brim. U-shaped rubber brim is allowed.

Chest and Back.
- Chest plate has rectangular button panel at the center. Button panel painted semi-gloss black with metal it metal-like stripe on top. Button panel has 1 switch, 2 thin and 4 thick buttons. There is a gemstone shape button, painted green.
- Chest plate has 2 angled grooves, one at each side of the central flat area.
- 2" wide white elastic band is following the chest plate's curve on each side, covering the end of the plate and ending at the groove mentioned above.
- White elastic band shall be put inside of the harness buckle and cover the center shaft of the buckle.
- The Back plate shall have 3" wide side plates at the bottom of each side.
- Side plates shall have 2 grooves each: one - diagonal and one - vertical.
- Side plates shall go under corresponding parts of the Chest plate.

ABS / Kidney armor
- ABS plate shall have horizontal ribs at the upper half of the front area. There shall be 6-10 ribs visible.
- Kidney armor shall have vertical 1" wide groove with oval ends, at the top right half of the armor. This groove shall be visible below the Back plate.

Soft parts
- Jacket shall be made of leather or leather like matherial. Plain leather shall be used at the whole front/back of the torso, under the shoulder bells and under the forearm guards.
- Sleeves shall be made of ribbed leather/leather like material, appx. 4-6mm each rib.
- There are 2" wide areas with clearly visible stitching above and below the biceps guards and above the forearm guard.
- Pants (Breeches) shall have visible stitchings at the reinforced areas: butt and inner side of knees.
- Pants shall have no visible pockets or belt loops.
- Pants shall be slim-fitted and narrowed toward the boots.

Shin guards
- Heel guard shall have opposite diagonal cut at both ends.
- Boot-cap guard shall have protrusion step at the end, appx. 2" wide. This step shall have thin-ribbed rubber strap, going from one outer side to inner side, under the boot's sole. Ribs of the strap should go broadwise and be clearly visible.
- There is a ribbed rubber strap, going from one small harness buckle to another, covering the back-calf guard. Ribs of this strap should go lengthwise. There shall be 3 ribs visible, each appx. 1cm wide.
- There is an oval groove on the outer side of each shin guard, close to the harness buckle. This groove might be painted black inside.

Accs
- Rubber or rubber-like belt shall be 85mm wide and have 24 thin ribs visible.
- Three front boxes shall be either functional with caps or have imitation of the caps.
- Baton holster shall be made of plastic or hard leather or other hard flexible material, white color. It shall have either 2 functional flaps or imitation of the flaps. Each of 2 flaps shall have a button or imitation of the button.
- Thermal detonator shall have ribbed cap at the right end. This cap shall stand from the main body up to 2-6mm.
- Thermal detonator shall have protrusion at the top and partially at the front areas, imitating the cap, painted semi-gloss black. This black cap area shall protrude in about 2-4mm over the rest body.

These are most of details, I see so far for Lvl2.

[Reideemer]

 

15 hours ago, Spiel said:

- There is an oval groove on the outer side of each shin guard, close to the harness buckle. This groove might be painted black inside.

Might be painted black?  Is this a requirement or a possible color suggestion? Do we have references of it being painted black inside?

 

 

Most of this seems like it should be lvl 1 basic as part of the armor design.  I didn't see much that was something that would need to really be considered lvl 2...

A few reminders when working to create a CRL:

- Avoid using measurements or what materials are being used to build.  Again, it is not a "how to"

- Try and avoid the "shalls" in the final edit.

- Do not include "Painted XYZ color" in the CRL.  Again, this is not a "how to" guide.  If they want that, they will have to come to the forums and get the details from us directly.

- Lvl 2+ are more exclusive to the screen used costumes and methods of their builds.  As an example, the TKs have 2 ways of creating many of their overlaping parts, but only 1 method is approved for lvl2+.  Additionally, the trim used on their helmets is similarly more specific than the basic U trim, and is Lvl 2+.

 

Everything you mentioned would definitely do some good in the CRL as more specific and in depth details for lvl 1 basic approval, but would need to be fine-tuned to make it seem like less of a how-to guide for instruction. Good Job!

[Spiel]

2 hours ago, Reideemer said:

Might be painted black?  Is this a requirement or a possible color suggestion? Do we have references of it being painted black inside?

I've only once seen this oval groove been painted black - on spy-shots of actors. And still I'm not sure that it wasn't a "heavy weathering". So I made a suggestion in this point)

Thank you for guidance, mate, this is my first CRL work and I'm still learning!

 

[Reideemer]

6 hours ago, Spiel said:

Thank you for guidance, mate, this is my first CRL work and I'm still learning!

 

No worries! This is my first NTTL CRL review for the LMO as well, but I have done GML duties before and have a little insight as to what they look for. If there is anything I can do to help make sure it passes the review, please let me know!

[Reideemer]

It has been a busy work week, so I figured I would check in here and see if we had any updates regarding the Wiki uploads. 

 

The LMO team has recommended that we get the basics for Lvl 1 solidified, and then work on Lvl 2+ prior to submitting the CRL for final review/approval.  That being said, I think that if we update the existing wording to include some of the finer details I discussed with Spiel as probably being better off as Lvl 1, we can make Lvl 2+ much simpler with things such as specific weathering patterns, S type rubber helmet gaskets, and jacket/pants materials.

 

That being said, if we would prefer to reengage on this at a later date when we have more resources available to see better details, such as HD video release, that is also an option...

[BikerScout007]

11 hours ago, Reideemer said:

It has been a busy work week, so I figured I would check in here and see if we had any updates regarding the Wiki uploads. 

 

The LMO team has recommended that we get the basics for Lvl 1 solidified, and then work on Lvl 2+ prior to submitting the CRL for final review/approval.  That being said, I think that if we update the existing wording to include some of the finer details I discussed with Spiel as probably being better off as Lvl 1, we can make Lvl 2+ much simpler with things such as specific weathering patterns, S type rubber helmet gaskets, and jacket/pants materials.

 

That being said, if we would prefer to reengage on this at a later date when we have more resources available to see better details, such as HD video release, that is also an option...

I haven't updated the Wiki because I thought the LMO team was already evaluating what was there.  I can go ahead and put in some of the stuff that Denis pointed out as it pertains to level 1.

We can work on Level 2 at a later date.  I'm really not in a hurry to get that rolled out.  As I said above, Shoretrooper level 2 didn't come until a year later, and we are currently working on a Kashyyyk Level 2 even though we've had that costume for 10 years or so....   there's no rush for a Level 2 on the Patrol Trooper.   I'd rather get folks approved first, see what kind of turnout we get, and then focus on Level 2 once we get some dedicated Armorers for the costume on Staff, as we do for the others.   Plus we need to come up with a cool name for Level 2.  Right now, I've got "Traffic Division".  But I'm open to ideas.

I've tried to keep this CRL simple in the spirit of the Scout Trooper CRL.  I'm trying to avoid overly complicating it or putting in details that would be better suited to an armor maker as opposed to an armor purchaser.   I'm a big believer in "make it look like the picture."   

[BikerScout007]

Okay, merged some of Denis' language into the CRL and updated on the Wiki and in the main post!