Griffin-X Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I like your "toe-be-gone" design Chef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Chef Yes, sometimes the guys were in rubber armor so they could be flipped over without being injured. Like I said, they did this to Fett too. This is hardly the same thing as the hero/stunt paradigm with the TKs, where it was based more on what looked better on film. I'll see your screen cap and raise you two: Both instances you can see the bund coming over the belt and how short it's actually supposed to be. Of course, all three of these screen caps are showing the back of the scout, so they aren't exactly dispositive of how the codpiece joins in the front. The testimony from the LFL guys, my guess, was probably a miscommunication based on the questions being asked secondhand. All I know is Gino's scout is the best looking fan made scout I've ever seen, and the first thing that jumped out at me when I saw it was that the bund/cod/belt actually looked screen accurate. And that storm commando cod looks great! Right on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugdozer Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 So in short, until we get some definitive pictures to show exactly how it was (I'm looking at you here, Gino), the point it purely speculative and we can argue the toss until the cows come home. Which is why I am attempting to contact someone who worked on the actual ROTJ costumes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikhailov Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think this has to be my favorite thread on BSN. I really love the attention to detail. Hopefully we can reach a definitive consensus at some point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think this has to be my favorite thread on BSN. I really love the attention to detail. Hopefully we can reach a definitive consensus at some point! Absolutely! I could talk about codpieces all day! Wait... did I say that out loud? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Absolutely! I could talk about codpieces all day! Fnar Fnar.... Well. yes. Essentially the thing with screen caps is that you can find anything to suit your viewpoint. There are people who will show you the flip and use it to justify that the boot holster can be on either side! I fully agree that the cod section does go under the bund. I don't doubt the evidence that my eyes show me. But it could attach with velcro behind, could be sewn, it could be on braces (ouch!), it could be sewn to the vest. The attachment method again is largely moot. But the guidelines are pretty unambiguous. Which precludes the bund sitting over the top of the belt to allow a visible set of the undersuit underneath. Having big gaps of black showing does look a bit sloppy in my opinion, much the same as bicep armour around the backs under your armpits and drop boxes hanging down to your knees! For me... it's more the SHAPE of those parts, rather than the attachment process. By my rough maths and scaling, if you assume each rib is 1", the bit that comes out of the bottom of the belt is roughly 9" wide (at the point it exits the bottom of the belt). Obviously it will be a little wider as it goes up to join the bund/vest at which ever point it joins them. And even more obviously... the scale will depend on the individual. But essentially the cod width is roughly twice that of the ribbing section, then shaped down to the crotch. Which is a lot wider than you'd think. So, get that bit right, and the look will suddenly be a lot better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Oh sure, just to be clear, I dont think that a gap should necessarily be seen. Just that the bund should stop closer to the top of the belt than the bottom. I notice a lot of scouts wearing their belts too low because their bunds are too long. The belt should rest on top of the hips. Yeah I went with 8 inches on mine, and it was a big improvement. But I'm not done experimenting. If you look at the scout codpieces on screen, they are pretty damn big and they dont fit quite so snug up against the wearer as many of ours do, due to ours being connected to the bottom of the bund 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I again doubt that the connection method has anything to do with how they sit. They are UNDER the belt. So the tightness of the belt will dictate how close the bund/cod is in relation to your abdomen. that bagginess is most likely due to the length and how it's secured as it goes underneath the crotch. If you look at the chap on the far right of the picture above, you can see the cod clearly goes in at the belt, and is tight with his body. It then goes out baggy and comes back in again under his crotch. Which for me would indicate that there was some method of fastening the bottom section of he cod to the suit, rather than just being pulled up G-String style by the elastic on the back. If it was purely just the elastic, the very nature of 'linear spring tension' would mean an equal force exerted over the length of the item, so it would pull an equal tightness over all of it, pulling that baggy section in (unless he is endowed with an incredibly big package... which is why mine looks so baggy! hehehehe), and moving the bottom of the cod, backwards under his crotch. I'll try and elucidate. If you pull an elastic band at both ends... it forms a straight equal line between those two points. At no point do you get a loose part. If you then secure a point in the middle (if you're blessed with three hands!) and move that point so one side becomes under more tension, and the other part goes back completely removing the tension and goes loose. You'll have a baggy bit and a part under tension. But the point being there is a 3rd securing point in the middle. This cannot happen without that 3rd point. **** Scout Bunds... also now a lesson in mechanics **** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 My thought was that the cod strap connects to something on the back of the vest that is adjustable, and not just sewn on as ours are. Gino mentioned there was a slider on the back of the flak vest that the strap attached to. That way the length could be adjusted based on who was wearing the uniform. Your 3rd point would then just be the belt pulling in on the cod. That guy on the far right looks like he's "pitching a tent". hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 That guy on the far right looks like he's "pitching a tent". hahahaha You mean you don't get that?? I have to say, my strap at the back is adjustable. It can velcro in a number of different spots up the back of the bund. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Right but to get the bagginess the cod would still need to be of a certain length, a length much longer than the distance between the bottom of the belt and the wearer's crotch. Which means that it would necessarily have to go under the bund a few inches. Which we already know it does. It seems the bund is simply just a tube designed to hold pouches and cover up the the connections between the cod and the flak vest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarlson101 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 There are people who will show you the flip and use it to justify that the boot holster can be on either side! If I was cheeky and had enough funds and skill/equipment I would make my own mirror flipped "evil twin'" scout and justify it with that scene... But I digress... Which for me would indicate that there was some method of fastening the bottom section of he cod to the suit, rather than just being pulled up G-String style by the elastic on the back. I'm with Chef on this one. I know there are theories that the cod was backed with support to keep it's shape, but if I was consulted on the design of the costume from a stuntman's point of view, I know I would be totally adamant about not having my family jewels constantly at odds with the butt floss elastic. I say there is an attachment point at the bottom of the cod for comfort purposes and the various levels of "tent pitching" were due to height differences in relation to the size of the suit or attachment point(s). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Stuntmen were consulted on the design of the scout (since it was such a stunt-heavy costume) so that is certainly a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dart Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 As far as avoiding the dreaded "camel-toe" or "moose-knuckle", it's simple: Don't have the cod tucking in between the legs. The original wasn't designed to do that, as seen in the image in this post - http://forum.bikersc...ndpost&p=115255 As it hangs, without being strapped down, the cod should really stop at the bottom of the crotch without wrapping between the legs. Even then, the elastic strap shouldn't be really tight but just snug enough to keep the cod from flapping around. Once secured, if it's done right, it should bend right on the chevron. I redid my 'bund last year (still gonna do another version as I'm not totally satisfied), and I made mine similarly. I actually put a piece of Kydex with a bit of a bend in it in the bottom part and I get a similar effect as we see on screen. I probably won't put the plastic in again, but with the thicker padding, it gives the same look. If you check out the photo in the following linky, you'll see what I mean. ( http://forum.bikersc...ndpost&p=113444 ) I'm the scout on the left. The other two scouts have a more usual pattern and you can see the result. Another thing I've noticed is that some 'bunds are just too thin. When making these things, use the super thick padding. It's a bit of a pain to work with, but it really gives it all a much nicer look. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerScout007 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I put 1/4 inch foam padding in the codpiece I'm currently using, but I'm going to try 1/2 inch and see how it turns out. And I agree, it shouldnt go between your legs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs1100muc Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thanks for your opinions, I also had some thoughts about it for not looking to sloppy. For sewing with the machine there's a roller foot to sew foam padding very comfortably and without snagging/sticking of padding into the foot. Another thing would be darting (?) or topstitching within the middle seam of the cod piece to have a better shape, here's an example to get the idea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimei Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm planning to redo my bund (it's served me well over the last four years, but needs to be retired). if i go with the "codpiece attached to the vest", but keep a little length on the bund so that it doesn't slip above the belt, then i'm still good? and what about applying for Lancer? will the two-piece version be a barrier to Lancer status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Gabe with Max's Sci-Fi Creations created my soft parts. He said my vest/cod being one piece, and bund just being a tube will definitely not hinder my going for Lancer eventually. He said this is, in fact what we *should* be doing with the soft parts. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin-X Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Gabe with Max's Sci-Fi Creations created my soft parts. He said my vest/cod being one piece, and bund just being a tube will definitely not hinder my going for Lancer eventually. He said this is, in fact what we *should* be doing with the soft parts. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Gabe has been doing some good stuff. BUT, is he a Lancer? Nope...so be careful and check with the BSN staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 He didn't just decide this on his own to spite me. He discussed this with Gino and Mickey a lot before proceeding. This is apparently more accurate than "bund is part of the cod." Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookieevader Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I would love to see the finished product so i can get a idea of if i want to go the two piece way or attach the cod to the bund Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 He gave me the choice. I simply stated that I wanted to go with the most accurate parts possible. Perhaps someday soon I can post some pictures here. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin-X Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Again, no definitive proof and "Gino says" does not get you anywhere around here. I love what Mickey did and could see how it "might" have been done in that fashion. To be clear - it's not a requirement at this point since there's nothing definitive to back it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4505Marcel Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Have to back up what Jim is saying, only the staff here have a say on what is and what is not required for lancer guys. There is several staff involved with lancer apps all with views, for me as long as the end result looks right, I see no issue in a separate cod. That being said there is no proof a separate cod is accurate, so I will be staying with the time served attached cod. If there is definite proof it's a shame folk won't share the evidence of a screen used suit, as it would benefit us all :/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Just to chime in on this interesting discussion... When I take a look at the two reference pictures below I really can't imagine how the cod and the cummerbund could be one piece. Of course, you could sew the cod to the backpart of the bund but why do this as it would be much easier to sew it inbetween the bund (but which would look different). What I did with mine was to attach the cod to the back of the bund with some velcro in order to achieve the look of the reference pictures: Cheers 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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