Evidence of Chin Cup

[marktoots]

Hi all

I know there is an on going debate about whether the chin cup seen on the screen helmet is actually worn in ROTJ as generally the photographic evidence suggests it was not but...

 

I'd be interested to know whether anyone has a view as to what can be seen in this image:

 

 

Under the face plate on this scout there is something extending down from under the helmet in the general area of the chin. It seems to be white in colour and is in focus so it is certainly on the scout. Furthermore, it is in the shadow of the helmet. The scout's head is not tilted to the his left so it cannot be the left side of the face plate and the angle of the body relative to the helmet / chin line suggests that it is not part of the chest armour or the shoulder bell!?

 

I'm not saying it is a chin cup however I do not know what else it could be?

 

I've also looked at the screen capture where the scout is viewed from below and to the front where it looks like his skin is exposed. While the "chin" does look skin coloured could it be a weathered chin cup that is in the shadow of the helmet?

 

I am interested in your thoughts.

 

Mark

[BikerScout007]

It could also be some kind of backing behind the snout

[marktoots]

Yeah thats true. Although looking at the photos of the screen helmet there is no indication of a backing behind the snout!? It looks to me like there is a physical separation between the "thing" and the back of the snout as you can just make out the return on the underside of the snout!?

[BikerScout007]

Yeah maybe.... I was thinking that the "thing" is so perfectly lined up with the snout area that it couldnt possibly be a chin cup. But you make some good points!

[Smiling Fox]

I don't think there is a debate any more. Scouts do have a chin cup. Many of us don't wear them because they don't come standard on most helmets but it is supposed to be there.

[cucblack]

I think have it. There is a pics with the original Helmet with it.

Why add a chin cup after the movie to the helmet. Is not logical.

 

Sent from my Lumia 710 using Tapatalk

[marktoots]

I agree that it would be crazy to add a chin cup after the event but there seems to be no screen evidence to indicate their use. While reviewing the screen captures I noticed the "thing" (I'm not going to call it a chin cup) as highlighted in my original post and wondered what it could be!? And wondered whether anyone else had any ideas!

 

I guess I'm questioning whether this is the elusive screen evidence that people have been looking for!?! And thus trying to gauge opinion.

[TB-7076]

There were holster straps and thigh armor in the concept shots of the visual illustration publications as well. Some of the produced collectible items still use these due to these references.

We also know that the concept sketches feature bright brown skid pads for the suit and the early test fits sport these bright pads opposed to what was done in the final shootings.

 

So we have to distinguish concept and screen canon.

So while we have proof that there were chin cups in helmets (see original from Steve Sansweets collection for example) it is quite logical that the stuntmen probsbly found this design element to be inappropriate in most of the action shots and removed them.

 

We can't tell if helmets like the aforementioned piece that was in possession of Sansweet has been the helmet of an extra in the background scenes or an unused prototype.

 

So it depends which philosophy you're entitled to. I personally think both variants are legit bit I prefer the no-cup-solution due to the same reason I hypothetically assumed to be a probable reason for the stuntmen to get away with it.

Also the loose or in most cases non aligned look of these spoils the apearance if you ask me.

 

Haven't checked the requirements for 501st scout levels lately but even of I always argue for authenticity I habe no problem to not reach a certain level like lancer if it does collide with my philosophy and understanding of the costume.

[Chef]

I'm with Philipp on this one.

 

There are many discrepancies between any pre or post production items, as has been highlighted by Philipp.

 

My view is that on EVERY scout costume that has a chin cup, it is 'clearly' visible in any pictures that are taken with them on.

Now, by that logic, if it is clearly visible, why is it you can't see it on screen??

 

The shot where the scout is falling backwards and you can see the skin colour underneath the lid. Surely that's the prime shot to see whether one was present or not.

 

The practicality of having something under your head like that on a stunt suit may have precluded it's use as it is probably quite dangerous in that situation.

 

Here is another screen grab from the same sequence and it looks like that part is actually a shadow/highlight on the collar of the suit.

The angle at which it is at is far too vertical to be part of a chin-cup.

 

 

Plus I think the little bit under the snout is how they cut the underside of the chin.

 

 

Here is the direct link to the original file. If you click on the picture, it scales up to a much bigger clearer image.

 

http://ladymanson.com/galleries/movies/MoviesRS/displayimage.php?album=22&pid=114948#top_display_media

 

Rather than being rounded (as mine is in the picture below), it was cut squarer similar to the red dotted line. (probably not quite that far in though).

 

 

 

So whilst I am in no doubt that at some point during the production of RotJ there was a 'chin-cup' in existence.

I am still awaiting definitive "screen proof" that one can be clearly seen.

 

If it can't, then those who have them are going beyond screen canon.

 

If they CAN't be seen, then it should not appear on the Lancer specs as it doesn't currently.

Optional is fine, if you want to have one then you fill your boots.

 

I'm not having one, not from a practicality point of view, but basically because of the above. I can't see it on screen, therefore it doesn't exist.

 

 

Be interesting to see if EFX have one on their 'screen accurate' lid!

[marktoots]

Chef. Your point about the shadowing/highlight on the collar is a good one especially when considering the lighting direction for the sequence and in fact something I hadn't considered. Would also explain why the "thing" extends down from the helmet in the manner that it does.