eFx scout helmet preorders ready july 8

[Donovan]

So if you guys were wondering when efx was going to finally start preorders for this thing well, it opens up the 8th. If you want to pay $700 for the clean version of the helmet here's your chance. I am disappointed they decided to do the helmet in fiberglass and not abs. Its a bit if a shame, and the price tag really is a shame in my opinion. I get that its made from the screen molds but that's too much for me.

[Oberkisstillalive]

Thanks for the info! Now I will most definately NOT be getting one. For $700 you could get an entire Biker scout uniform (helmet and all) and still have some change. No offense to EFX as they make some of the best looking helmets but... yeah... offense to their poor choice in using fiberglass... maybe if their non "legend" version is half the price of its shiny counterpart than I will consider purchasing it... maybe...

[Donovan]

Exactly! I got my whole scout for $700! And I hate that its in fiberglass, I HATE fiberglass helmets. And the non shiny will probably be $500 if were lucky. I'm just going to wait to pick up a lw helmet( if he ever makes any again) because its just as accurate and in ABS

[gino]

A lot of things have been addressed in this thread.

 

http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=8977&st=0

 

 

It would be great if a mod could move this into the helmet section so people could more easily find it.

[Donovan]

I see your points and its understandable for mass production but I think the price is what is killing everyone.

[gino]

I think $699 for this helmet is a fantastic price.

Especially when you consider that it is the only helmet in fandom that has ever been offered that was made directly from using the original production molds that made the original helmets for ROTJ.

In addition to that, this helmet is incredibly complex and difficult to produce and manufacture. One of the reasons I believe it was never produced back in the day when Don Post had the deluxe line of helmets. I don't think it ever made it past the prototype stage.

And if you recall, back in 1995, the Don Post Deluxe Vader helmet retailed at $1200 and it had very poor pedigree and questionable execution. And a much simpler helmet to produce.

So here we are almost 20 years later doing it for much cheaper then they were able to then. And soooooo much better.

[Evil-Inc]

I've already put in my interest through my local supplier to get one.

I agree it was a tad more than I was hoping to pay but there is no way in hell I'm missing out on one of these.

I'd sell a kidney if I had to, to get one. Luckily, I don't.

[Chef]

I have to disagree Gino.

 

It is expensive considering the costs of raw materials of GRP. Yes, you're paying for the lineage and there is no quantifiable value on that, so is it overpriced?? Only your customers can make that choice.

 

 

Production... With GRP you need to have moulds. Those moulds cost money. I know that... I've made enough GRP lids to last me a lifetime.

But once you have those moulds, the lay-up and construction is very simple. Time consuming, but simple.

But with those you can only ever use one mould at a time. There is lay-up time, curing time etc... Very little finishing time if you've done it correctly. So effectively you only really need one person doing these unless you are making multiple moulds, which again isn't cost effective.

So in terms of Labour, it's not very cost effective (hence why I've moved away from it).

You're having these done in China, where labour is cheap, so that part of it is slightly negated.

 

If it were me...

 

I'd have used the original bucks and vac-formed them as per the originals. You then get authenticity in the build, which unfortunately a GRP one will lack.

You can bang out vac form parts in a fraction of the time it takes to do a GRP one (if they're being done properly), and then you can have multiple persons working on the fit and finish of the parts as they come off the former.

 

A better use of available labour (assuming more than one person is working on these).

Initial tooling costs are less because you only need one set of bucks and you get a much more authentic product at the end of it.

Yes the post forming construction phase takes longer, but as already pointed out. Cheap Chinese labour costs negate this issue a little.

 

 

 

But that's just me.

 

Will I get one... I doubt it. As lovely as it looks. It's still made of GRP and I can eventually source an LW lid for a fraction of the cost and that is constructed in the same fashion and materials as the original and the detail is pretty much spot on too.

So overall that is a much better package.

 

 

But no doubt you will sell them.

 

It's not a dig... It's just my honest observation on this lid.

 

I disagree with your assessment of production/manufacture/costs/complexity issues, that is all.

 

At the end of the day, what price can you put on screen lineage??

[gino]

Well, I'll be in SDCC with this helmet, I encourage anyone who has a fan made to bring theirs and we can compare them in person.

I think you will be astounded just how different and more accurate this helmet is compared to any fan made.

As well it should being as it is from the original molds and all the fan mades have incorrect proportions details when compared to an original.

[Stroker]

Well, I'll be in SDCC with this helmet, I encourage anyone who has a fan made to bring theirs and we can compare them in person.

I think you will be astounded just how different and more accurate this helmet is compared to any fan made.

As well it should being as it is from the original molds and all the fan mades have incorrect proportions details when compared to an original.

 

Wow! Gonna leave it there.

[TB-7076]

Most fan made helmets derive more or less from Don Post sizing. It is no miracle these turn out to be smaller.

But LW and one of the south american ones are quite near the actual size. It was proven with exhibit comparisons.

Of course the fact EFX got the original moulds is implying that helmet will be the most authentic one regarding

the details and proportions which is a major argument for me to get my hands on one of these but well...

Atm such a price in a limited time frame is simply not doable.

 

I don't want to argue about the price. It is high but as it is a collectors item this is expected.

License fees, development and production costs, staff costs and a niche market (even if numbers of costumers

and collectors are growing) are factors business men have to call for prices like that to have a benefit.

Otherwise why should you do all that if there is no revenue involved?

 

I wish you guys would have been two years faster in the development.

And I wish there could be a constant supply of buckets with that origin. Less interior, less retail stuff I don't need

like plaques, documents etc. and kit form if it would lower the costs.

 

The simple men would appreiciate it

[Donovan]

TB7076 and chef

I highly agree with both of you. I really do like your idea of offering these as abs kits, I would definitely get one with out a doubt

[Donovan]

Gino

I agree most of the fan mades are very different from this helmet but, the LW helmet is almost exactly identical asmade in the thread you told me to look at. There was a comparison between LW and efx and they were pretty dang close.almost identical

[gino]

Gino

I agree most of the fan mades are very different from this helmet but, the LW helmet is almost exactly identical asmade in the thread you told me to look at. There was a comparison between LW and efx and they were pretty dang close.almost identical

 

No disrespect to LW or anyone else but not even close.

Like I said before, I think once you see them in person side by side will be an eye opener.

 

 

.

[Donovan]

I guess id have to get a full on comparison between the two then because I have to disagree with you. Don't get me wrong, the efx helmet is BEAUTIFUL but for the price, its going to be hard for many people to obtain in such a short time

[spookymufu]

well, you cant blame Gino for his defense of this helmet, after all he works for EFX, it is a very nice looking helmet and the accuracy could be spot on to the screen used originals, but I have to agree, at the end of the day, price is a concern for 90% of "us" and this is VERY high when you consider you can get one un-licecenced for a fraction of the price and will be very close to the originals, but as stated above, what price do you put on linage?

[gino]

Well, very close is subjective depending on how well you are familiar with the original helmets.

I think only seeing a comparison to other fan made pieces will be able to show people just how different.

To me, they are not even close. But to other less discerning collectors, they might see the fan made's as close enough.

I say check them out in person if you can, and see for yourself.

Hopefully there will be some people at SDCC who will have some of these with them at the show and we can do some comparing.

And hey, while you are there, there's a lot of behind the scene pics and such that I can share privately for those who care about that sort of thing.

[EnigmaEngine]

Too rich for my blood.

 

....and I feel slightly talked down to. Maybe these are meant to be a collector's item more than something for use in a costume. Sign me up as a less discerning collector, then, because I freakin' love my fan made helmet that had a 501st pedigree before I got it, and would love to get a LW someday.

[gino]

Well I most certainly did not mean to come off as talking down to anyone so apologies if that was the case.

I'm simply just trying to lay out the facts as to avoid any confusion.

I'm sure in time once these are out there for others to see, those people will reinforce all the things I've stated.

This really is a great time to be a scout fan.

[EnigmaEngine]

No worries. I totally understand the excitement that would come with making a product like this, particularly in light of the licensed scout lids that came before it. We're all scouts here, and we love us some fine scout gear! Just understand that we've been supported by those fans making gear for the rest of us.....fantastic gear.

 

No need to say yours is "better". Just talk about how awesome yours is, instead of comparing it to them. I may not be able to afford it, but in fairness I couldn't afford a LW if one came up for sale this very moment either.

[BikerScout007]

I'm with Chef -- make an ABS one and I'm all over it. That would be the most accurate to the screen ones.

[Donovan]

If it were offered in abs wed be all over it. It still looks amazing overall but price is an issue for us all

[Soundwave]

Not to "pile on"... But...

 

1) I feel a little talked down to as well, so I agree on that front.

 

2) I accept your apologies, but it's still the way you have talked about how much better your helmet is than the ones we ALREADY HAVE. Not the ones we WANT. (Please note, I said WANT... Not NEED)

 

3) I'm not going to lie, When I heard that eFx was making a Scout helmet, I was all over it. Super excited.

 

Then, when I saw the pre-sale price... Not so much. That sparkle and those hopes and joy that I had were gone.

 

I'm not going to say that most of us are simple folk, but we're not all Steve Sansweet, Phillip Wise, J.J. Abrams, or much less George Lucas types with money to just burn on this stuff. And, just as a fan, setting people up with a 2-4 week pre-oder before you set mass sales up is a little short notice for something that high priced. Even Sideshow would allow a bit more time for the pre-order.

 

.... Just sayin'.

 

4) I've worked in retail. I understand price points. I do. But I also understand mark up for profitability. And while I do not know what your board of directors (or whomever mades the choices on these) decided was a fair price point... They may have miscalculated. granted, I have not priced a fiberglass shower or bath tub lately, But that's a LOT more fiberglass. And, stickers/decals shouldn't be that expensive. And, labor for them based out of where-ever you chose to assemble them... And then you pay your craftspeople who molded the helmet... It shouldn't come out this expensive. At least in my line of thinking. I know I'm missing some steps, but when you look at it like this, for someone who MOLDED a helmet after screen used ones, and did not SCULPT it... I see there is a problem with your price point.

 

And, to be clear, this isn't about JUST the helmet itself. It's about the price. The price seems to be the biggest problem that you need to be reading here from the feedback that you are getting from the people wanting to INVEST in your products. (...Not just BUY, but INVEST)

 

5) I love your helmet. I'd love to have one. Sincerely. I would. I guess I was just expecting different price points for them, similar to what you've done with your TK helmets. Your buckets look awesome. They are truly beautiful pieces.

 

However, The ones used on screen were ABS, and NOT Fiberglass. This has been documented. So, based on that, just starting right out the gate, it takes away from your level of screen accuracy. That's not to say that it takes anything else away from your helmet, but for you to tout that yours is the best out there, I'm just a simple folk with little extra money and one of those other helmets that you seem to look down on... And, I've just made the biggest observation on the flaw of your new product.

 

-----

 

I don't have anything to lose here.

 

Like I said before, I'd love to have one... Just not at that price when I already have so much more I can upgrade (not replace).

 

And now.... I'm afraid what I did have as the front of the line for new upgrades, has been pushed to the list of "I wish".

 

Please feel free to do a little research and look at what others are charging for something that looks just as nice from 5 feet away, and re-evaluate. (not being worn and on a stand.)

 

After all of this, I am pretty sure that there will be people still wanting to purchase the various other helmets far before they look at purchasing yours. Your price is what's hurting you the most here. I'm sorry to dose you with reality, but that's the truth.

 

In closing, I will not purchase the helmet at the price point you currently have it at. Thanks for sharing the product, Thanks for the excellence and execution you have put forth into it. It's just not for me. And as someone shopping around, At this time, I'll choose to take my business elsewhere.

[Chef]

I don't think that's really an major concern of eFX's, Tim (incidentally, I agree with your every word).

 

They'll sell at that price point, no doubt about it. Because there are enough people out there in the world willing to pay it. Purely because of the lineage.

 

So the relevant material/production costs are largely moot.

 

If that was a fan sculpt and was absolutely spot on would it be worth that much. Not on your life. You'd think the person had gone down the path with the faeries.

 

But it's not, it has the lineage and they know they can put what ever price they want on it. IT WILL SELL.

 

I don't think that the fact it's out of the price range of some of us 'normal folk' is of any concern to them. That's business, I'm afraid.

 

What irks me slightly was the justification through development, production and material costs...

Simply not the case, when you know what's involved.

They'd have been much better off just saying. " It's got lineage, we know some of you'll pay it no matter what, so the price is high. Don't like it... Tough. Don't buy it".

 

Maybe LFL wanted a massive slice in royalties. I can fully accept that.

 

 

Hey ho... it's not really for us to moan about or deride Gino for.

 

The price is what it is.

Happy... buy it.

Not happy... Don't buy it.

 

I just think they missed a trick doing it in GRP.

[Soundwave]

No disrespect to Gino or anyone else. I have a friend that works for/with eFx. I have all the respect in the world for them. I just think right now we're not getting along. Much like me and some of the houses or cars I'd like to have. There's only so much you can do.