Trade section shake up discussion

[4505Marcel]

Allowing only 501st approved sellers seems just kind of fishy. Especially if they are going to start contacting a person with a cherry picked vendor. Creating a monopoly for specific vendors and putting up a wall for potential new and better sources to get off the ground.

Not really this is a 501st detachment, so ultimately everyone should be 501st or aiming for 501st, once 501st everyone can sell so every one gets a crack of the whip

[Dart]

I agree with a minimum post count of 10 and maybe at least 1 month spent on the forum. I don't think that's a difficult amount of posts to put in. I've been on other forums where it's 50 posts and 3 months before a new member can access the trade section.

 

To those new members who are wondering, "what am I gonna write about?", feel free to post up some info (whatever's comfortable) about yourself in the Member Introduction section or post something/reply to a post in The Scouts Barracks. Or if you see something in another section, go ahead and write something if you're motivated to do so.

 

Lots of opportunity to get those first 10 posts outta the way.

[PanzerKraken]

Not really this is a 501st detachment, so ultimately everyone should be 501st or aiming for 501st, once 501st everyone can sell so every one gets a crack of the whip

 

I was kinda responding to those who were saying stuff like messaging a person with a vendor contact. To me that kind of stuff sounds like the group or folks picking a preferred member vendor, which would put a wall on new vendors into joining the game.

 

I still don't see the requirement or need for a vendor to actually be 501st, what if they are just talented artisan who can help the community and have no intention of joining themselves? Sith Armor for example has run into an issue of not being able to supply us with new gloves anymore and there doesn't seem to be any other recommended vendors who can help us newbs. Wait for a 501st only member to appear who can solve this issue or wait and see if someone else can step up to the plate even though they are not part of the club? It just seems like options will be highly constrained by tightening the rules on vendors too much and could have negative impact by reducing future possibilities in growth for options.

[4505Marcel]

I under stand what your saying but ultimately vendors are selling unlicenced gear and so really the trade section shouldnt excist full stop. Im trying to put into place foremost protection of our troopers an second a little secutrity for the vendors too that is all.

 

Thers no conspiracy on only allowing preferd vendors, but it is far too easy for venors to dissapear, or not supply for an awfull long time with no way of contacting them or after the paypal 45 day threshold has gone. Atleast with a vendor being 501st, they almost certainly can be contactable at all times.

 

This is a 501st club so vendors that have no interest in joinging or making a costume, or contributing to this community are just here for the money in my eyes, there will always be ways of getting gear. With sith armour in mind they dont actually sell here, yet most buy from them, is a example of not really needing a trade section to supply. As Chef said troopers talk to each other and pretty much know where to go, this is also the job of the armourers to point troopers in the right direction.

 

I feel it is a good thing to have troopers get to know us and also allowing us to get to know them, questions should be asked about suitable armour ect before buying, learning build techniques ect so a minimum post count is really easy to achieve.

[Chex]

Are there preferred vendors? Absolutely. Would I recommend one over the other? Absolutely! But I'm going to do it based off of a number of factors. Budget, time frame, body type, level of skill, etc. We don't benefit from recommending anyone. Our only benefit is seeing some great looking scouts come out of the process. We're not here to steer you wrong, or have some profit from our recommendations.

[Pandatrooper]

Are there preferred vendors? Absolutely. Would I recommend one over the other? Absolutely! But I'm going to do it based off of a number of factors. Budget, time frame, body type, level of skill, etc. We don't benefit from recommending anyone. Our only benefit is seeing some great looking scouts come out of the process. We're not here to steer you wrong, or have some profit from our recommendations.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. We ran into this a lot on FISD. A new member would join up and be fixated with getting "armor X" because it was a hot topic on the forum, or "the best" for them, or the cheapest etc. but they didn't always take into account their body type, fit, budget, skill etc. In fact, they could have often saved money or time by buying "armor Y" instead.

 

It's always a good idea to leverage and gain the trust and help of the community. There are many skilled and talented people who have been staring at armor or helmets or whatever for a very long time, why not get their help or feedback by being PART of the community.

 

I wished I was more open and asked even more questions 5 years ago on FISD, if I knew then what I know now, I would have made different decisions and saved a ton of money and time. Learn from the mistakes of others! Most people that went through the same process are often very inclined to help, guide and make recommendations to gear purchase or assembly. That's what a community is all about!

[Chef]

Terry...

 

The problem was 5 years ago, half this information didn't exist, and half the people weren't willing to provide the rest!!

 

The community is a much better place now than it was back then. It really was like the blind leading the blind.

MonCal was some sort of mythical beast and every time someone mentioned his name you could just hear the theme tune to the A-Team scoring up in the background.... Jeff was about the only bit of decent reference material and getting hold of stuff was like pulling teeth.

 

I ended up making my own because it was nigh on impossible to find anything. It wasn't UNTIL you got cleared that suddenly you actually managed to find any information.

 

The place was like "Fight Club".

 

Whereas now..... it's go here, here and here... Hey presto. Instant Scout off the peg!!

 

But it's this transparency that could well be people's undoing. How long will the "House of Mouse" turn a blind eye to what could be a good money spinner for them.

Over-priced Rubies tat anyone??

[Chex]

And that will def be something to worry about in the future I think. Disney might end up causing a lot of trouble. We did the LegoLand opening for the SW part back in Nov here because our appearance was set in stone before Disney bought LFL. LegoLand wanted us for May 4th-5th just now and were turned down. Gee, I wonder why? If Disney is already showing a little muscle now, it's only a matter of time. But that another discussion for another time lol.

[Goubatsu]

And that will def be something to worry about in the future I think. Disney might end up causing a lot of trouble. We did the LegoLand opening for the SW part back in Nov here because our appearance was set in stone before Disney bought LFL. LegoLand wanted us for May 4th-5th just now and were turned down. Gee, I wonder why? If Disney is already showing a little muscle now, it's only a matter of time. But that another discussion for another time lol.

 

This worries me...

[The Dark One 508]

Hi,

I am a new member, and I have taken to "lurking" here and reading the forums, using the board's resources and using the search function to seek out answers I may be looking for. Mostly because in my experience new people dive in feet first and ask lots of questions, buy everything they see is cool and ditch. I don't want to be considered one of those people, and part of me feels out of line by chiming in to this discussion but it is something I have kind of taken an issue with IN this community. This is going to be incredibly long but hopefully insightful.

 

That is this forum has no feedback section for people to give feedback for sellers or people they have dealt with. On top of some members placing restrictions on new members to purchase items from the trade forum, but not so much on the people that are selling product.

 

I'm right there with you. I totally believe that people should "contribute" in some way before they are allowed to buy. That is not what appears to be the problem here. It's the sellers that are what people are taking issue with. People just joining have no legitimate place to go to READ into the people that are selling products here, this is one glaring reason why my name has not appeared on any lists. I do not know if x person's cumberbund is "the" best, compared to y's. I do not know if person x's selling ethic is better or worse than another's. I just see a few different people selling the same thing.

 

I come from a community where people have to PURCHASE a supporting membership in order to sell their wares. That takes away this problem:

http://forum.bikersc...showtopic=11208

If you are willing to make money in the community, you should be willing to support it with some of that money earned from it. This is on top of a period of membership and easily obtained post count. Most especially so if you expect people to pay 100% up front for whatever it is you are selling. There absolutely needs to be more accountability, not just here, but damn near everywhere because this is a practice I've seen in countless prop communities. I totally think being a member of the 501st and other related groups below would have more accountability, but also may lead to people "protecting their own" (which I will explain some later)

 

Currently I am at a point with my tb armor that I am either going to abandon the project all together, because I was ripped off by one of the members here and a 501st member, this guy: Peter Gebhart, a 501st member.

http://forum.bikersc...l=&fromsearch=1

 

If I was not fortunate enough that someone at Paypal was willing to listen to me that mediaguypj/Gebhart was committing fraud by using their gift system, he would have walked away with my very hard earned money because he disappeared after I paid him. I also did not get everything I paid for (did not include a helmet) because as it turns out, while I was in talks with him about buying this armor, he put it up for sale here during that time; and sold the helmet separately. This was all going on before I became a member here and it took me looking through the for sale forum to see that he put up the armor here for sale. I don't know what his plans were, but I know they were not very good.

 

Now, with that in mind; I am toing the waters to see if I want to pursue this armor or sell it and hope that I get what I paid for it back on ebay. This armor has been a mentally frustrating and exhausting ordeal for me. I am leaning on going straight to SC and getting an armor from there and redoing the whole thing.

 

I also have a really good friend friend that was financially involved with a seller here, who's thread was closed and they are no longer selling, this person:

http://forum.bikersc...?showtopic=6013

 

Who is not answering any of my very good friend's attempts to contact the seller. He did everything that was required of him to do in order to get this person's wares. As of today, he has nothing except another hobby he got into screwed him out of more money. It's really a shame because it seems he's always running into rotten luck with sellers in every community we both join.

 

Had Ladysewforus and mediaguypj/Pete Gebhart, have to jump through an extra hoop or two in order to sell, and/or people dealing with them in the past were able to speak openly about them in a feedback forum my friend and I, and most likely others, would have heeded some very invaluable warnings and not pursued a business interest with those people, and word from their feedback here would reach their local detachments.

 

I also must add, Hotshot/Rhett Martin is banned and blacklisted from a community I am a member of because he recasted member's items on top of already poor customer service track record and has taken money from several people without delivering products as promised. I think had there been some warning HERE about him many of you would not have run into the issues you had with him because unfortunately information and blacklisting recasters does not cross over to communities such as the rpf and here.

 

Finally, I also am anxious to hear the absolute NEED for a member to be in the 501st. I have always loved the biker scout, Han Solo is one of my cinematic heroes, and I live to play around with my many millennium falcons; but my experiences with local and clearly some national (since Gebhart is a member) members of the 501st, have been incredibly negative. I have been harassed by a local 501st tk at many local conventions, I've gone as far as writing letters to their detachment and seeking help with others with no results(seemed as if they were protecting their own), and then the fiasco with Gebhart.

 

I know plenty will object even though I have more interest in this community than I do joining local 501st detachments and I believe even though that may impede my membership here, I am also a very talented and thorough prop builder with plenty of helpful incite and experience in that aspect of the hobby and would hope that can be appreciated more. I do have many friends in the 501st, but they live out of state and I do not hold the 501st over all in a negative light, it's just locally, and those few bad apples I've encountered.

 

Making "be a 501st" requirement to be a member here or purchase would be awful for others that may be in my shoes that want nothing more to be apart of this community and work on something with people with similar interests but have countless times been burned by the overall group they may have to join. Does everyone at a convention in a StarWars armor have to be a 501st? Do you treat them any different if they are not?

[Griffin-X]

Adam...thanks for your post. I will try to address some of your concerns and I'm sure other members including leadership will too.

 

That is this forum has no feedback section for people to give feedback for sellers or people they have dealt with. On top of some members placing restrictions on new members to purchase items from the trade forum, but not so much on the people that are selling product.

 

Actually, that's not really true. We have a BSN Feedback thread specifically for, well, feedback. Also, someone from the CMD staff is usually always online and available to help and/or ask questions. You only need to ask, not lurk. You can always contact any staff member, or create a topic for whatever you want to address, openly.

 

http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showforum=21

 

I come from a community where people have to PURCHASE a supporting membership in order to sell their wares. That takes away this problem:

http://forum.bikersc...showtopic=11208

If you are willing to make money in the community, you should be willing to support it with some of that money earned from it. This is on top of a period of membership and easily obtained post count. Most especially so if you expect people to pay 100% up front for whatever it is you are selling. There absolutely needs to be more accountability, not just here, but damn near everywhere because this is a practice I've seen in countless prop communities. I totally think being a member of the 501st and other related groups below would have more accountability, but also may lead to people "protecting their own" (which I will explain some later)

 

We (as a 501st detachment) have operating expenses. ALL 501st detachment web sites deal with the yearly operating costs associated with hosting a site such as this one. It's not free, but we cannot charge a membership and/or a fee to sell your merchandise. Yes, that would help pay for the site, but we have strict bi-laws to follow enforced by the Legion. So, each year, members like you and I help the site. We have an awesome group of members and support.

 

You may have noticed, but if not, this thread is a DISCUSSION about how to deal with a "potential" issue. ALL sites (as you know), including RPF and other prop based costuming forums, have a similar type of problem. How do you allow someone to sell something, and then how do you enforce whether they actually deliver, stand up to the quality, etc.. We're always looking to improve things, and that's the reason for this thread and the discussion. I will address your "member based sale" below as well.

 

Currently I am at a point with my tb armor that I am either going to abandon the project all together, because I was ripped off by one of the members here and a 501st member, this guy: Peter Gebhart, a 501st member.

http://forum.bikersc...l=&fromsearch=1

 

I always hate to see this happen, but it does happen. If you have been making props and been part of a similar community, you have probably even seen it happen too. Unfortunately, any member can post a FS thread, show his stuff, and someone could buy it. The terms of that sale are between the seller and the buyer. We have a strict rule and I feel it is enforced. Again, you mention that you lurk and watch, but it may have helped you to ask, or even look for feedback first. Btw...the FS thread rules can be found here: http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=1161

 

I also have a really good friend friend that was financially involved with a seller here, who's thread was closed and they are no longer selling, this person:

http://forum.bikersc...?showtopic=6013

 

Who is not answering any of my very good friend's attempts to contact the seller. He did everything that was required of him to do in order to get this person's wares. As of today, he has nothing except another hobby he got into screwed him out of more money. It's really a shame because it seems he's always running into rotten luck with sellers in every community we both join.

 

The LSFU Debbi really works hard (both here and in real life) and has had many, many successful runs. If you read her updated post, she fully intends to fullfil all open orders. She even mentions that you should contact her on Facebook and/or her personal LSFU web site. She is not hiding, nor is she ignoring the situation. I'd advise your friend to contact her via the methods she outlined. Also, since you use the forum search and have extensively browsed the site, I'm sure you noticed this thread. It's the BSN Vendors List. We work with the various armor and soft part sellers to either add, update, or remove sellers based on performance, feedback from members like yourself, and overall "value-add" to the BSN community.

 

http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=8569&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

Finally, I also am anxious to hear the absolute NEED for a member to be in the 501st. I have always loved the biker scout, Han Solo is one of my cinematic heroes, and I live to play around with my many millennium falcons; but my experiences with local and clearly some national (since Gebhart is a member) members of the 501st, have been incredibly negative. I have been harassed by a local 501st tk at many local conventions, I've gone as far as writing letters to their detachment and seeking help with others with no results(seemed as if they were protecting their own), and then the fiasco with Gebhart.

 

Although I can't speak for your local Garrison, it always saddens me to hear about how you are being treated. That's just not right. I'm not sure what BSN can do, but we will try to help. I do not know the seller but, if I were asked, would not have recommended that setup. Did you ask any questions before you bought it? To anyone on this site?

 

I've been in the Legion going on 2.5 years now and I love it. This was all new to me when I got started and sure, I made tons of mistakes, learned lots of lessons, who is good-or-bad, and who has what...it's all part of the experience. Some join the Legion, and others do not. We are not pushing you to join the Legion, although I think you'll find it's a really cool thing. When you troop at a Hospital, and visit a sick child in a burn ward, it changes you. Trivial things become less important, and the smiles you see on the kids faces are priceless. IMO...that's why I really enjoy what we do.

 

Btw...here's the 501st Mission statement.

 

"...The Legion is an all-volunteer organization formed for the express purpose of bringing together costume enthusiasts under a collective identity within which to operate. The Legion seeks to promote interest in Star Wars through the building and wearing of quality costumes, and to facilitate the use of these costumes for Star Wars-related events as well as contributions to the local community through costumed charity and volunteer work..."

 

I have lots of costume friends who are not in the Legion. They also do the Darth Vader, Stormtrooper, Boba Fett, and/or other Star Wars costumes. The difference? Theirs are not as accurate as ours (Rubies armor vs. AP, RS, or others). But its all good and we are friendly, at least here in Texas!