Bund material

[Southscout]

Hi guys,

 

after the discussions here http://forum.bikerscout.net/index.php?showtopic=9637&st=80 on the shinier bund material I have started making a new bund in beaver nylon.

 

It's still ongoing, velcro, ribs and codpiece is missing (I'm following Panda's 'no camel toe' how to).

 

But what do you think about the material? It's shiny as Chefs (although my GML says it's too shiny...) and it's a bit thicker.

 

 

 

And a reference pic:

 

What do you think? Looks ok, or simply discard and never consider again?

[Southscout]

Just had a rear occasion of sunlight, so I took another picture:

 

[Chef]

I'm not sure that it's 'too shiny'.

 

We have to remember, it's going to be difficult to replicate the actual lighting that is shown on the Blu-Ray. And this will always throw up some differences.

 

What we can say is that there is a definite 'sheen' to the material, and it is definitely of a different texture to the pouches. Whilst the colour is very similar, I think the sheen and texture difference give that contrast between the two, that lead to the white/off white pouch debate.

 

 

Thicker is always good. The material I found was a bit thin and difficult to work with.

 

I never knew you got nylon from Beavers.... You live and learn!

[Southscout]

Thanks Rob.

 

I'll go ahead with this little project to see how it ends up.

[Chex]

Looks good so far. Interesting points too, Rob.

[Southscout]

Just a thought, does anyone know what the material used for the arms on the flak vests is called? could it be that, but in white?

[Southscout]

Just to "wrap up" this thread, here's the finished bund. Comments on the material?

 

 

I posted a short how-to on how I did it here: http://forum.bikersc...showtopic=10334

[Chef]

Bloomin' A1 as far as I am concerned bud....

 

But then I'm a convert already. It's the rest of the world that we've got to convince to come up to speed! heheheheh.

[Griffin-X]

Really nice, great work on this bund.

[Dart]

That's a nice 'bund! Great tutorial/build thread, as well. I'm going to be redoing mine soon as well and all these new discoveries and techniques are gonna prove to be very helpful.

[Southscout]

A little *bump* on this thread since I think we need to discuss the material choices a bit more.

 

Some pics "stolen" from Studiocreations to show both the sheen and the weave:

 

 

 

 

 

Let the debate begin...

[Chef]

For me it's pretty obvious (but then I am already in this camp, so am a bit biased).

 

Look at the crotch close up. The pouches show a definite heavy twill weave and are a bit dull, whereas the crotch bit is reflecting the light a little better (looks lighter) and you can't see any weave pattern at all.

 

The way it creases and folds is also a little unnatural for Cotton fabric

 

Also with the bottom picture, the way that the weathering has sat on the fabric does tend to lead (in my view) to a tight possibly man made fabric type. On cotton, stuff tends to soak in and you can see a definite bleed pattern, whereas on the bottom picture is just looks like it's sat on the top with minimal bleed.

 

 

Interestingly the top picture is a good shot for the argument about the thermal det greeblie having the two small protrusions uppermost.

[Southscout]

Interestingly the top picture is a good shot for the argument about the thermal det greeblie having the two small protrusions uppermost.

 

Gold Five: Stay on target.

[Southscout]

*bump* on this topic, since the debate/discussion is not really going anywhere.

[miqt]

Is there a seam in the bottom circumference of the cummerbund or not.?? There's a hint of a line that could suggest a seam in that one MoM reference shot. I think the material is the same or very close to the nylon used for the xwing flak vests. Really hard to find just the right sheen on the nylon. I almost wonder if the nylon had to be 30 years old to take on that sheen. Uv exposure etc. different formula for the nylon I dunno, just can't quite nail It 100%, there must be a reason.

[4505Marcel]

I think its very hard to tell by the "screen" grab on the material, personally I take the MOM and blue ray picture with a pinch of salt. As we know the MOM had lots of errors so could the Blue ray suit, The rear screen grab does look like it has a sheen or could it just be the bright in studio lighting used. So hard to tell

 

Unfortunately nobody knows for sure that the MOM or Blue ray suits used screen used parts, or parts made after. Im not against people using the fabric if you want the choice with a sheen as long as the overall look is right, but for me personally there is no firm evidence of it being used on screen for me to alter the material on mine or what I use at this point in time.

 

Your bund does look very nice though bro

[Chef]

I think we have to look at these in conjunction with the screen grabs and MotM and the Blu-rays.

 

What didn't we know before the MotM exhibit:

 

The Belt loops at the back, the rivet under the tank, the Knee rivets. These were found on the exhibit, and confirmed by checking the screen grabs.

 

What didn't we know before the Blu-Ray

 

The Det Greeblie, and the Bund/Pouch Stitching, Bund Material.

 

These have been checked back against the screencaps to make sure.

 

Yes, there are differences, omissions and a few goofs with both the MotM exhibit and the Blu-Ray, but I don't think we can dismiss them in their entirety.

 

The only way to really nail it down would be to link up the weathering to a screen used suit. I've had a very brief look, but can't find anything definitive.

 

 

 

I think what Patrick is trying to get at is that "would the usage of this material be clearable?"

 

I don't think he is trying to say that everyone should go and change their bunds, it's more of a question of he thinks this material is the more screen accurate, and he is going to have to get that past his GML, who by the sounds of it, is not very open to new ideas.

 

So with this being on the very head of the Lance so to speak in terms of development, is he likely to have the back-up of the Detachment or is he going to have to push this one on his lonesome?

[Southscout]

I think what Patrick is trying to get at is that "would the usage of this material be clearable?"

 

Exactly. The CRL states cotton so that is the only thing clearable by a GML, and since the CRLs are definitive requirements and not recommendations, there's not much a GML can actually do.

 

Just to shake things up, one can actually pose the question on why the CRL states cotton? The only thing we 100% know for sure is that it's white. But my intention is not to raise hell on these boards, it's just to get some good opinions up in the air.

 

What I do understand is that is very hard to define something called "a shiny material", since the sheen is very different between fabrics. But I think we should try to keep an open mind and try to define this one way or another if we as a detachment can reach a consensus on the allowed materials. I write materials in plural as I also understand that it's very hard for us to just change the CRL to state something that we can't really say what it is. Nylon comes in hundreds of variants, so it's a very hard requirement to nail down, so of course we need to also allow other materials, like cotton.

 

But, we need to start this somehow, get some fresh ideas in, comments from people knowing fabrics, etc. For that I need help of the detachment.

 

Lastly, what we should keep in mind is that so much is cleared out on our costumes that where down to the very finest details, and we should be proud of that

[4505Marcel]

As I said Im happy to have this in the CRL once we have discussed it, it neednt be just cotton in my mind. I feel we need to be carefull on how shiney we can go, Id say yours is border line, I dont think it should be more glossy or textureless than the material you have used.

 

I just feel for me persoanlly there isnt enough evidence to say either way, so Il stick with my heavy twill for now

[4505Marcel]

Did any of you guys get your heads together on this as it seems to have died. Did you want to start a discussion thread with a poll as to wether you want this in the CRL?

[Chef]

Well..... there only seems to be Patrick, John and I who are bleating on about it.... every one else seems a little non-plussed either way.

 

But yes... I'd like it in there!

I'm sure Patrick will too.

[4505Marcel]

Personally I cant see why it cant be as long as the fabric is not over shiney and still has the heavier weave to it

[Dart]

It looks like a Nylon Cordura, possibly around 300-600 denier material. I've got some 300d material that looks just about like that. I think it could be possible that it was weathered to tone down the shinyness of the fabric.

 

The trick would be how to describe it in the CRL. Shiny wouldn't be a word I'd use, but you could include using a "white nylon parachute material" in the description. The CRL photos would need to be updated to include an example of that.

[4505Marcel]

I dont think another picture needs to be aded as the picture is more to show shape and construction rather than material, for basic CRL clearance its just that a basic CRL. All that really needs to be added is cotton/nylon material can be used. At the end of the day it is up to the GML's to say wether the material is too shiney so troopers will need to provide reference to each of theor respective GML's if going that route. It could open up a can of worms if troopers dont do their homework on the selection of material (cotton heavy weight fabric was an easy one to get right), and get refused due to over shiney or no heavy weave to the fabric.

[Southscout]

Well..... there only seems to be Patrick, John and I who are bleating on about it.... every one else seems a little non-plussed either way. But yes... I'd like it in there! I'm sure Patrick will too.

 

Yes, I kind of lost interest in this a bit since the debate didn't really take off. I would gladly see it taken to a vote to get the general feeling about it.

 

And as I wrote before, I do understand the 'trickiness' in specifing this. I.e what is shiny?

 

As for the picture from the blu-ray, it could also be argued that this might be a non-screen used part, however I personally think that it's a bit too well done with weathering and everything. And if someone re-did it, why not use the original material that is probably easier to find.