Fiberglass helmet review

[NegativeEleven]

Introductions (skip past the first pictures for review):

I have been a member here for a little over a week, but I've been reading up on the Scout Trooper for a couple of months. I have a Boba Fett costume, that I've resolved to never upgrade to 501st standards, but after trooping with them several times over the last 8 or 9 months I've decided to build a costume that I can get approved. I've been building props for over 4 years, mostly sintra/bondo projects, but I've done a little bit of molding/casting and just a couple of months ago started to learn Vac-forming (mostly from the tutorials on Studio Creations website).

 

My Fett helmet is resin, very sturdy. I also have a cold-cast (resin/alluminum mix) Vader and an old Rubies vinyl Fett. After holding TK and Imperial Pilot vac-formed helmets, I felt that resin or fiberglass is the way to go. I'm too afraid of breaking something that's vac-formed ABS. So I went searching. After a week of looking, I decided to buy a fiberglass Scout Trooper helmet from Skywalker214 on eBay. The pictures were great, a little warping here and there, but for the most part, it looked accurate. The visor looked crooked, but I don't think that will be noticeable when it's on. I was afraid it might be small, as there was nothing in the pictures to compare it to.

 

Review:

 

Now, before I get any further, I had to resolve an issue with Skywalker214. I was about to leave him negative feedback, when I reconsidered and sent him a message to see if he'd make it right. The helmet does not look as good as the one pictured on the auction (but that's to be expected). It has a lot of deep scratches that will need to be sanded and re-painted. The hot glue used to hold in lens and liner is a huge mess. The visor screws were covered by 1/8" pieces fiberglass, poorly hand cut into circles and wrapped with grey tape.

 

Skywalker214 replied within a few hours and said that he could refund my money or replace it. he asked for pictures to "show to his supplier." That was late last night, I sent a few pictures and said that I would be willing to keep it (saving both of us time, and saving him the cost of shipping it twice) if he'd refund 20% of my money. That way I could justify it to myself as an unfinished helmet kit that I would need to work on, rather than a fully completed helmet. He called this afternoon and was very pleasant on the phone, refunded my 20% and I'm happy. I have less work to do than if I had bought a vac-formed ABS kit and it's a strong fiberglass helmet.

 

 

These vinyl decals on the back look right to me. I'm going to have to take off that fish-hook decal and replace with a grey one, right?

 

 

In that last one, you can see the scratches on the nose. They're not too bad, but obviously done with a dremel or sander or something, not damaged by shipping. The nose sloops out a good bit at the bottom. I hope this doesn't keep me out of the 501st, but it's easy to fix if I have to. The nose greeble is wrong. I'll need to find someone who makes that (I bought a faucet aerator this afternoon).

 

 

 

This is the worst of the scratches. I don't even know how that could've happened. They're pretty deep, too. Here, you can see by the way I'm holding it, that the visor doesn't go up. The top ridge is too thick, and it just rubs against the dome, so although the screws should allow it to rotate, it's not going to without a lot of trimming.

 

 

This is the most troubling. I feel like the forehead part under the visor, over the eyes is too small. If anyone knows if this is going to be a problem for 501st acceptance, please tell me soon. If I have to change that, there's no reason to do any work on the face before it's dealt with. The eyes are also small, looks to be about the same size as the Rubies one, but about 30 minutes with a Dremel and sandpaper should have that looking right. The vents seem to have been trimmed sloppily with a drill bit, but I've already cleaned em up a lot with just an Xacto knife. Obviously, the grey paint was poorly done, but from what I understand, it's supposed to be painted black anyway. Looking at the "screen used helmet" part of the gallery, it looks like the faceplate nose is black with a piece of grey Sintra or ABS on top of it.

 

 

This spot circled is a little part that is caving in and needs to be filled. I guess the visor has a hollow core, and this spot was just thin and broke thru.

 

 

Here's where I was kinda happily suprised. I wasn't expecting the ear mesh to line the whole helmet. There's also a perfect padding at the top. The hot glue mess needs to be cleaned, though. In the middle there is a chin-cup, with straps attached at visor screws. I wasn't expecting that either. It fits well (the chin cup), but the strange balance makes the helmet fall forward. I'm gonna have to get a hardhat liner to make it sit right on my head.

 

 

And lastly, the size looks right to me! After shipping costs, and my refund, my total cost was $175. That's not bad. It's not great, considering my previous experience; there's a lot of suppliers of Fett helmets and I got mine (resin cast with lineage to one of the originals) for $55.

 

I'd love to get your opinions on this thing. I felt like a jerk when forum members here offered suggestions for where to get "approved" helmets and I said that I didn't want any of those because I don't think vac-formed ABS was strong enough. I felt better when SC replied to my emails saying that he'd recommend a fiberglass helmet over his own vac-formed one, but didn't know of any suppliers. This guy said he has around 15 of them on hand to sell, and I'd like to hear some folks with more experience share their opinions on whether or not they recommend buying one.

 

Edit: forgot to mention, in case it isn't clear in the pictures, this is 2 pieces. That's a little different than most I've seen elsewhere. The face/visor is one solid piece.

 

Edit 2: I guess I should put a link to the seller. http://myworld.ebay....E:X:RTQ:US:1181 He has TK armor/helmet and a Fett helmet for sale right now, too. The one person I talked to who had heard of him, said that he'd heard that the TK helmet isn't very accurate. His Fett definitely isn't accurate (poor paintjob and lots of mistakes in the shape). I didn't think too much of that because I know the Scout Trooper isn't as heavily scrutinized as some others because of how rare the original helmets are and how bad the few licensed ones are.

[NegativeEleven]

 

Here's the screw covers, flipped over so you can tell that they're just hand cut into bad circles and wrapped with grey tape. That's a big blob of glue falling off too. I already picked up some elevator bolts and there's paint drying on them in the garage right now.

[NegativeEleven]

I wonder if it'd be possible to coordinate with this guy and one of the other builders. It'd be great to have this dome/back and put the visor/faceplate from a more accurate build on it. I'll take some detailed measurements tomorrow when I start working on it.

[Darth Voorhees]

My personal opinion on ABS vs Fiberglass..ABS is better. I have dropped ABS helmets down steps and nothing happens to them, aside from maybe losing a greeblie or 2.. Drop a fiberglass helmet down steps and its going to get destroyed. Mind you,. this is coming from a guy who currently owns a fiberglass MLC3 helmet. I am however waiting for LW to have more of his ABS helmets available because they are the absolute best. IMO.

 

you could have contacted MLC direct or got one through MonCal, if you wanted fiberglass and saved yourself some work. The only thing i like about fiberglass helmets over ABS is it feels more like a "real" helmet. But they are very fraglie.and i actually wont travel out of state (like to Florida for celebration for example) with a fiberglass helmet.

 

On the note of fixing this up...its going to be alot of work. Most of it is WAY off. Being a GML i wouldnt clear this helmet just based on the shape, its very off. However, being fiberglass, and you having some experience with that, you may be able to chop it up and fix it up. I personally would love a project like this, but i already have too much to do lol. This is going to be ALOT of work to get it to 501st standards. Even the donpost/rubies needs alot of work, but it looks better in overall shape (aside from the warping)

 

Im not trying to be a jerk, just telling you the honest truth so you know whether or not you want to move forward. It would definitely be a fun project for sure.

 

i know ya from TDH dont i

[NegativeEleven]

Yep, been on TDH for 3 years now. There's so much info at TDH, it's hard to get used to this forum after spending so much time there! Think you could give a short list of what needs to be fixed (nose angle, brow slots, size of eyes, nose greeble)?

 

My thinking with fiberglass isn't so much that I'll drop it, but that it'll get squeezed in the box with my armor and end up cracked. I don't know if the vac-formed Fett parts I've bought over at TDH are styrene or ABS, but they'd definitely have been destroyed by now if I hadn't spent time reinforcing all the edges with Sintra/bondo/casting plastic/etc. I've been playing with vac-forming styrene, and once there's a little crack, it tears open so fast.

 

-------------------------

edit: Also, I don't think you're being a jerk. I've been called a jerk on other forums for pointing out when something needs work. To me that's more useful information than "good job." So I appreciate it being said to me, and I appreciate reading it in other threads. Thanks for the honesty.

[Darth Voorhees]

Awesome, sometimes i make posts like this and then delete them as i dont want to sound like a jerk, but like you, i too appreciate when someone points out what needs to be done other than just posting "nice find" and then talking about "how bad it is"with other troopers. So, im glad i didnt offend

 

Yea styrene is what cracks like mad. Just like you said, one little crack and it tears like paper! ABS is MUCH stronger.

 

I can show ya pictures of my helmet if that will help. The MLC isnt the most accurate but it is up there with the better ones, and its fiberglass so the materials are the same.

 

Off hand..the things you mentioned are definately things that need work...brow slots shouldnt be there at all. they are decals. The visor opening should be larger, the snout detail piece needs to be replaced. (i just started making those, and will donate one to ya ) Snout/nose should be shorter and more vertical. The visor should also have a slight curve across the top. The MLC doesnt even have that, but it should be there.

[Griffin-X]

Good review Chris, sorry you dealt with this eBay seller. I sent you some feedback via a PM reply. Bottom line: we'll all help you fix this up if you want to go that route. It's going to need some TLC for sure.

[NegativeEleven]

It looks like a great place to start for me. I am happy with it. Griffin, I think I told you in a message that I enjoy working on a project, not just buying pieces and putting them all together. If there were templates out there, I'd be trying to build most of the armor myself. I do have 501st as my goal with this, but building experience and saving money are priorities too.

[Darth Voorhees]

Building experiance is always good. Of course with all the modding of this you may want to do, and then if you wanted to cast parts you may end up spending more in supplies than just buying a helmet...but sometimes what you learn is priceless.

[NegativeEleven]

Well, If it takes as much modding as you guys seem to think, maybe re-casting rules won't apply and I'll throw it on my vac-table and sell a few to make up the difference. I'm still working out the kinks in my heating method and could use more experience there anyway!

[Chex]

To be honest, it kinda looks like a recast SF. I wouldn't recommend that helmet to anyone. Like Lou said, there are a lot of things off about it. I'd be hesitant to approve that bucket. It's just sloppy craftsmanship. I def look forward to seeing you fix it up though.

[Darth Voorhees]

EDIT: ha! ya beat me to it Chex!

 

ya know after looking at it a few times...it looks like the same helmet "omen7" (ebay user name) is selling on e-bay, which looks just like Star Fortress's scout helmet..and even the pictures look the same as Star Fortress. I wonder if this skywalker guy is the same person, or recast Star Fortress's helmet. We all know to stay away from them dont we? lol

[Griffin-X]

To be honest, it kinda looks like a recast SF. I wouldn't recommend that helmet to anyone. Like Lou said, there are a lot of things off about it. I'd be hesitant to approve that bucket. It's just sloppy craftsmanship. I def look forward to seeing you fix it up though.

 

Ya, I was thinking the same thing due to the narrow look of the face plate. Good eye Chex.

[NegativeEleven]

I did think it looked a lot like the one Omen7 sells. The prices are the same (one is $30 less, but the shipping is $30 more). I decided to go with the one from Texas that only took 5 days to get here instead of the one from China that said it would take 6-8 weeks.

[Chef]

I do think they are one and the same.....

 

it's a shame you've had to go through this process buddy, getting a bit of a lemon always leave a bitter taste in the mouth no matter where it comes from.

 

Whether this will pass muster really is down to your GML (I know ours would have some serious issues with clearing this in it's current state).

 

With some serious work, it can be made good. It all depends on how much work you want to invest in it.

As Lou said, experience is priceless. If you put the effort in and made this a good bucket, then you'll have gained so much in terms of experience and confidence, that you'll be able to approach anything that the rest of your build could throw at you.

 

 

As for the Fibreglass argument... I like it... I work with it a lot building body panels and stuff.

It can be more frangible than ABS, but then that depends on how good the lay-up is. After all, they make car bodies and Crash Helmets out of the stuff, so it can't be all that bad!

 

Some of the problems you are describing with your lid are purely down to bad lamination. The air pockets creating eggshell thin outer skin.... this means that there are areas of laminate that have not bonded to the outer surface, and these create weak spots. How serious the problem is in that lid is impossible to say because they have painted it.

 

The area around the brow looks to be quite thin... I'd estimate that they've only put a 1oz lay-up on there... which is a little thin for my tastes... I'd go for at least 2oz, and preferably 3-4oz at the outer edges with 2oz across the main bucket.

Wether there are any air pockets in the main bucket, you'll only be able to tell by taking the padding out. If you have cause to do this, you should see bubble like patches under the surface if they are there. Likewise, any dry patches in the glass (you'll see glass strands rather than a smoothish surface with glass pattern in), mean that there has been insifficent resin applied, and this creates an area of weakness....

 

 

The good news is that GRP (Fibreglass) is very resilient, and any remedial work is readily accepted onto the old surface. You can repair it and when completed, you'd be hard pushed to know where the repair is.

 

As for it not looking as good as the one in the picture.... well, that's just shoddy workmanship. Anything made in GRP from a mould, should in theory be absolutely identical to the original. That's the joy of a solid mould. What goes in.... is what comes out.

 

Here's a picture of a GRP lid that was the first out of a mould... (minus the lens and visor bolts).

 

 

 

and here are a couple of others taken from the same mould after about 10 lids...

 

 

 

 

 

If you want any advice on how to approach this bucket, then just shoot me a PM.

[NegativeEleven]

Chef, thanks for the info. I'm gonna play with it for a few weeks. I might end up scrapping the visor and face in favor of an ABS one. The weight of the face is probably going to make it uncomfortable anyway. That's something I didn't think about because none of my other helmets have such a large face component.

 

I started to work on it a bit today. I won't have more time till next week because I gotta make some repairs to my Fett before a troop on Saturday and that's gonna eat up most of my free time.

 

I got elevator bolts and trimmed out the holes to fit em in the visor and helmet. I filled the face vents with casting plastic. It dries quick and hard, and it sticks to everything. I think Chef is right about the visor being hollow with very thin walls. I could feel the heat as the plastic was curing and it had spread thru the visor pretty far. I picked up a lens for a fighter pilot helmet from the Army surplus store for $2. After a bunch of screen shots from ROTJ (why are the ones in the gallery here so low res?), I traced out lines where I think I need to trim this thing down. If anyone has opinions, I'd love to hear em.

 

 

It's looking like I need to seperate the visor from the face. Looks like I need not only a taller brow, but also a bit more showing below the visor on the bottom. The face needs to be lower by about 1/4-1/2 in. I think I'll scrap the top of the visor and replace it with a 14" thick piece of Lexan I have left over from another project. Should be able to heat and curve that. The sides of the visor seem usable, and with the top gone, I can bring them in. There's definitely screen shots where you can see a little of each side of the visor, meaning they aren't parallel. The face is close to the right shape. Chopping the nose down should leave me with a wider flat spot in the front.

[Chef]

I've sent you a PM buddy.

 

With regards to the brow... Extending it will probably come as a natural progression when you curve the top of the visor. I also think that because they have made the visor shroud so thick, that it has also taken out about 4-5mm of the brow as well.

 

Remember the original ABS ones, only had the thickness of the ABS over it.

 

This GRP one seems to have done away with the lip around the visor, and just made it a solid piece.

[NegativeEleven]

Ouch... well today I got to troop with 2 scouts, and I compared my fiberglass helmet to theirs. Now, they both said that theirs were older versions than what is sold now (a fiberglass MC and an ABS from KS), so this might not be a problem anymore, but mine is MUCH, MUCH bigger. I'm finally starting to see why you guys said you were sorry I wasted my money on this. I obviously can't make it smaller, and an ABS face from one of these makers isn't going to fit at all. Any thoughts, guys?

 

 

My dome and sides are on par with the TK helmet that was left on the table. I didn't think the Scouts helmets were that much smaller than TK's.

[Griffin-X]

Wow, that is a large helmet. Mine is a KS from about 1.5 years ago. It looks about the same as the one pictured and compares in size to the MC. I think the size of yours pretty much clinches that it's a SF recast. As for a face plate replacement, I'm not sure what to advise. You could create your own that looks more proportionate to the rest of the helmet.

[NegativeEleven]

Well, I see now why you gave me a list of places to get a helmet. After reading about how SC, KS, and MC have size differences and slight variations (obviously the ears and eye shape in these pics), as well as being mostly vac-formed ABS kits that have to be assembled, I thought there was more leeway in picking a helmet. I thought that there couldn't be that much wrong with this one, that looked pretty similar in the eBay auction pictures. Hopefully this will be a warning to new members here. I welcome the challenge... saving $30-$40 and getting new experience, but it's a challenge I could have avoided.

 

The guy with the KS said that they're larger now and he plans to upgrade someday. It's weird because he was the bigger of the 2 scouts. I'd never be able to wear that one with my glasses on. The big difference that I hadn't noticed before seeing them side by side is the bottom of the faceplate. On mine, it doesn't come out under the visor to overlap the little ridge on the back/sides. That pretty much

 

I'm sure I can eventually get it to a point where it'll either be approved by 501st, or at least a point where I think it looks good enough to resell to someone with the understanding that it's not 100% accurate (I don't know how these guys can sleep at night when they recast and sell with deceptive descriptions of their products). It was still cheaper than any other one (especially fiberglass) I've seen out there, and I'd rather it be too big than too small. I remember how dumb my Fett looked with a Rubies vinyl helmet (those are at least an inch shorter than the actual one and look awkward on a 6" man).

[bwattsup]

The big difference that I hadn't noticed before seeing them side by side is the bottom of the faceplate. On mine, it doesn't come out under the visor to overlap the little ridge on the back/sides.

 

It's kind of crazy how off this one is. I've never seen one that overlaps that way. That's just insane.

 

 

I'm sure I can eventually get it to a point where it'll either be approved by 501st, or at least a point where I think it looks good enough to resell to someone with the understanding that it's not 100% accurate

 

Just so you know, none of the scout lids are 100% accurate. Even the LW lid isn't 100% accurate. and that's the closest Ive seen. We are not blessed with an original to mold from. The EFX version coming out is from the mold, but thats made of fiberglass.

 

Why must the gods forsake us?!? lol

 

Good luck with this Chris. I look forward to seeing what your gonna do with it. And btw, I want to do a Fett after completing my scout. I'd love to pick your brain sometime.

[Griffin-X]

Well, I see now why you gave me a list of places to get a helmet. After reading about how SC, KS, and MC have size differences and slight variations (obviously the ears and eye shape in these pics), as well as being mostly vac-formed ABS kits that have to be assembled, I thought there was more leeway in picking a helmet. I thought that there couldn't be that much wrong with this one, that looked pretty similar in the eBay auction pictures. Hopefully this will be a warning to new members here. I welcome the challenge... saving $30-$40 and getting new experience, but it's a challenge I could have avoided.

 

The guy with the KS said that they're larger now and he plans to upgrade someday. It's weird because he was the bigger of the 2 scouts. I'd never be able to wear that one with my glasses on. The big difference that I hadn't noticed before seeing them side by side is the bottom of the faceplate. On mine, it doesn't come out under the visor to overlap the little ridge on the back/sides. That pretty much

 

I'm sure I can eventually get it to a point where it'll either be approved by 501st, or at least a point where I think it looks good enough to resell to someone with the understanding that it's not 100% accurate (I don't know how these guys can sleep at night when they recast and sell with deceptive descriptions of their products). It was still cheaper than any other one (especially fiberglass) I've seen out there, and I'd rather it be too big than too small. I remember how dumb my Fett looked with a Rubies vinyl helmet (those are at least an inch shorter than the actual one and look awkward on a 6" man).

 

I feel for ya Chris. I think you can fix it up and resell it to recoup some of your funds. You got some great skills and can make it look a heck of a lot better than it did when it arrived. I'd pursue a KS or an MC helmet for your own needs.

 

As a rule we try to disuade people from eBay since that's where recasters lurk about. You can sometimes pick up good bits and pieces (TD greeblies, snouts, etc), but even that's hit or miss depending. Unfortunately, guys like that one are a reality in this world. Even his auction says "screen accurate", which is total bull-pucky.

 

If you need anything going forward, ask away. We're all here to help.

[NegativeEleven]

I found 2 pepakura files for the Scout helmet while searching RPF. One is set for 11x17 printing and the other for 8.5x11 (this one is much more detailed). I've never been patient enough for a full pepakura build, but I've used parts as templates to cut stuff out of sintra. I decided to take the more detailed of the 2 files and print it out to see if I could get something useable. I got some good pulls out of my vac table this week. I started thinking that maybe if I had some size reference, I could combine parts of this helmet with vac pulls of pepakura build and a little hard work to get something accurate enough that I could either wear myself or perhaps sell to a heavier trooper. You know how silly a v1 KS helmet looks on a big scout.

 

This afternoon, I used the visor parts of the paper pepakura to cut/shape a sintra visor. I found out last week that there's a guy building a scout here in town and I compared my sintra visor to his KS helmet. It's huge. It completely fits over the visor of the KS helmet (I know KS is the smallest of the approved helmets, but it's still very big). So I have to resize the pepakura. But this visor build is not a complete waste... if I reshape the fiberglass nose and forehead, with this visor, fit it to the fiberglass helmet, I could just have an oversized but accurate helmet. I'll try to get pictures up soon.

[Griffin-X]

Actually...the SC helmet is the smallest.

[NegativeEleven]

Ok, so the Pepakura looks pretty accurate. It's very detailed. I would share it, but I have no idea who to credit, and you guys can find it searching over at therpf.com.

 

 

And here's what I've done with the fiberglass Skywalker214 helmet...

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the pepakura build fits the skywalker helmet, which means it's way too big to be accurate. Also, the visor from the KS helmet fits completely inside this one.

 

But I'm thinking that this visor, when finished (threw a ton of Bondo at it today) could be used to make the skywalker helmet a much more accurate shape. It sits a little far forward and doesn't quite fit where it should (the back still isn't perfect). I also have some work to do on the face. After cutting out the eyes and squaring off the top of the nose, it's looking a lot more like it's supposed to. I still have a lot to trim off the front of the nose, and some building on the brow and sides. It kinda looks like they just threw fiberglass over the Rubies (or DonPost) helmet and then made a mold of that. It's like a bigger less accurate version of the Rubies, but with some extra angles thrown in to make it look sharper in eBay pictures.

 

If I scale down the pepakura (5-10% maybe), I can get something accurate. Or if someone wants an accurate, but oversized helmet, maybe I can make a trade. I'm feeling both better and worse about this project. It looks like I found a way to salvage this thing. But I'm not much closer to having a useable bucket for me.

 

Also, Moncal and StudioCreations have not responded to emails (or PMs here) lately. Anyone know what's up with that? I still plan on ordering armor from SC, but was thinking MonCal for the helmet if I can't get something usable myself.